017 | Bar Scene dynamics: from advocacy programs to how to approach top bars | Part 1/2 with Adrián Michalčík, Global Winner Diageo WorldClass 2022 (Oslo, Norway)

Show Notes

Episode Deep-Dive Analysis Available at maffeodrinks.com 

This is the first episode of the chat between Chris Maffeo and Adrián Michalčík. He is the Global Winner of the Diageo WorldClass 2022 and Global Top 6 in 2016. He is the Director of Mixology at Pier 42 in Oslo.

They discussed:

• The importance of On-trade in brand building, especially in dark markets.

• What can small brands learn from Global Brands' Advocacy Programs.

• How Salespeople can prepare themselves before approaching a bar.

• Latest developments in the Czechoslovak and Nordic bar scenes.

• The Italian and Czechoslovak connection in the Global bar scene.

• How top bars decide which brands to list on their offering

About the Host: ⁠⁠⁠Chris Maffeo⁠⁠ 

About the Guest: ⁠⁠⁠⁠Adrián Michalčík

Interested in Group Subscriptions, Keynote Presentations or Advisory? You can get in touch at [e-mail] or find out more at maffeodrinks.com 

Creators and Guests

Host

Chris Maffeo

Drinks Leadership Advisor | Bridging Bottom-Up Reality & Top-Down Expectations

Guest

Adrian Michalcik

Global Winner Diageo World Class 2022

What is MAFFEO DRINKS: Industry & Leadership Insights?

The MAFFEO DRINKS Podcast is a leading drinks industry podcast delivering frontline insights for drinks leadership.

For founders, directors, distributor MDs, and hospitality leaders navigating the tension between bottom-up reality and top-down expectations.

20+ years building brands across 30+ markets. Each episode features drinks builders: founders, distributors, commercial directors, sharing how the drinks industry actually works. Not the conference version. Honest conversations.

Insights come from sitting at the bar.

Beyond episodes: advisory for leadership teams, subscription with episode deep dives and principles to navigate your own reality.

Beer, wine, spirits, Low and non-alcoholic.

Bottom-up Insights & Episode Deep Dives at https://maffeodrinks.com

Hi and welcome to the Mafair
Drinks Podcast.

I'm Chris Mafair, founder of
Mafair Drinks, where we provide

the nonsense approach to
building drinks brands from the

bottom up.
I will be your host and in each

episode I will interview a
drinks builder from the drinks

and hospitality ecosystem.
In episode 17 and 18, I had the

honor of interviewing Adrian
Mikhail Cheek.

He's the global winner of the
Idea World Class 2022 and Global

Top Six in 2016.
He's the Director of Mixology at

Pier 42 in Oslo.
He has an incredible drinks

experience in various markets.
I hope you will enjoy our chat.

Remember that this is a two-part
episode, so if you liked it,

feel free to listen to both part
one and two of our chat.

Hi Adrian, how are you doing?
Hello Case, I'm doing very good.

Thank you very much.
How are you?

Nice.
All good, All good.

Here in Prague, it's a bank
holiday, so you know it's very

calm out here, so that's good.
So thanks for joining me on the

podcast.
This is a very great honor to

have you as the global winner of
the Yajia World Class 2022.

Let's crack on with some
questions that I have for you.

And you know this will be a very
interesting conversation as you

know you are one of the top
bartenders around the world and

you bring.
Different angle versus what I

usually have here because
usually I interview brand owners

mainly.
So now it's basically having

somebody from the other side of
the bar and we all part of the

same drinks ecosystem.
So the first question I have for

you is the drinks ecosystem,
it's kind of like split into

like the hospitality industry
and the drinks industry, so

brands on one side and hotels,
bars and restaurants on the

other side.
Do you feel that?

They understand each other well
enough or there is a lot of

translation to be made between
the two worlds.

They need to somehow be
connected together.

If there is no connection, there
is something wrong with that

because I truly believe this
goes hand by hand.

We of course like serving or
selling the products on an off

trade market also, but on trade
I think it's an amazing showroom

of the brands and that's also
the opportunity to connect with

the guests with the experience
around which we can.

Build around the product where
we using the brands.

So I truly believe that this
should go hand by hand.

From the perspective of the
bartender, I would say we have a

power of speaking about the
brand and explain more about the

brand to our guests and give
them better experience.

So I think it's quite important
also for the brands to focus on

the bartenders and to
communicate about the brand, all

the informations and present it.
Correctly then bartenders can be

ambassadors for the brands and
and we can definitely bring

these products to our guests and
sell them in a better way.

So I truly believe that this
this world somehow should go

next to each other by hand.
And do you feel that there is

before, let's say in in the
earlier stage of your career you

were mainly working behind the
bar, now you're also

representing some brands, doing
mass class going around the

world and so on.
So how is your.

Job change and do you feel the
corporate world understands the

bar world or or there is a bit
of a disconnect between the two

like meaning basically if if the
brands are more focusing on on

off trade because that's where
the majority of the sales

actually happen, Do they really
understand the role that you're

talking about about the on trade
for brand building?

Based on my experience like I
can see many friend

representatives which are very
helpful and focusing on on trade

market on us, on bartenders and
giving us enough of information

support and they really care
also about on trade market.

Of course the biggest amount of
money is made of trade.

As I said before I think many
people are buying products to

their homes.
And then for example are coming

to the bar and I think that bar
can be used as a advertisement

or as a kind of showroom of the
new products.

In a bar you can also order a
short of something.

You don't need to pay for all
bottle, you can try something.

And if you really like it, then
you can basically buy it home

right for now.
I can see that many brands

really cares about the
bartenders and I think like year

after year even more and more
that they really understand that

we can help them with the sales
and with the presenting of the

product.
Now I also work with the brands

and I'm meeting up with the
people which are sharing pretty

much the same idea that they
really want to be helpful and

supportive for the bartender.
So I'm very happy for that

because I see that it's an
amazing opportunity to translate

and present the brands to our
guests.

Fantastic.
And you're spoiled because

you're working with one of the
best.

I mean, world Class is probably
the best advocacy program out

there around the world, I can
say We know.

No size to to the idea, but I
must admit that and what do you

think?
Can small brands learn from

world class, for example?
Obviously they will never have

the budget that that is put in
into it, like some of the

executions are just like
incredible.

But there must be some things
that you can also do as a small

brand working with the bartender
community, right?

Definitely the budgets for
advertising, they are very, very

different that since we're
speaking about big brands

compared to smaller brands or
newly made brands.

But I think what is important is
to try to become bit more

personal and also try to find
the way how to sell their

product like how maybe maybe
inspire also bartenders how to

use that product.
Also maybe create small events

where you can speak to
bartenders and you can try to.

Convince them that your product
is high quality and it can be

used in many different ways.
So how versatile for example can

be that product?
And then we as bartenders, we

feel that someone is trying to
care about our knowledge and try

to become more personal.
We also feel much more connected

to the brand.
And then we truly like believe

in that brand and in that case
we are also able to sell it to

people because if you don't
believe in a brand in the

quality of the product for us
bartenders like we will of

course always use the brand
which we believe in, in the

quality we are familiar with or
we have a sympathy.

So I think small brands what
they can do always it's to

explain or introduce the product
in the best possible way to

bartenders.
And also try to be personal like

even big brands.
I would say sometimes maybe it's

hard to be personal with the
bartenders.

But based on experience here on
our markets, there are many

distributors which are trying to
pass by the bar and trying to

say hello and asking if you need
any help, if you have for

example new stuff in a team, a
new team member, so if.

They have a knowledge about the
product if we want to educate

ourselves or so on.
And this is like personal touch

for me and I can see that
someone really cares about that

if it is big brand or small
brand.

I think becoming personal and
close to bartenders give them

enough of knowledge and maybe
inspire them or show them the

ways how the product can be
used.

I think this is super important.
So if there is like small brand

which is just starting, I would
say like a kind of good advice

can be to create a way.
Give the knowledge to partners

how to use the product and
definitely try to become more

than a business partners, maybe
even a friends and then we of

course feel much more connected
and we believe in the product

much more and in that case we
are able to forward it or sell

it to our guests.
Wow, that's a gold nugget.

I think a lot of the listeners
will appreciate your advice on

that one.
Talking about how people

approach you and approach your
bar and so on, like whether big

or small brands after we need
the global world class, has that

changed the way people relate to
you or to your bar and to you as

a person or not really?
Definitely, yes.

World class is the biggest part
and there's competition and it's

a really big thing to be named
as a global winner.

So of course respect is
obviously coming there.

I'm very happy that the
attention came to to our market,

to our bar seen here, because it
really grew from zero to hero

like in the last years and it
really deserved to be seen.

So we have like in the Nordic
countries, we have amazing

restaurants.
That's trend which we can see

like in the food industry that
Nordic restaurants are.

Basically setting up the trends
somehow and also the

minimalisms.
It's not just like in a

restaurants or in a kitchen
role, but also for example the

architecture and so on and I
think like.

Everything is kind of influenced
by this, by our, like we at the

bars, we are influenced by, for
example, Art and Akisin, right,

like Nordic bar scenes around
Sweden, Norway or Denmark.

They really grew.
I'm super happy that they are

now having a little bit more of
attention about the respect.

Of course nowadays many people
that are looking on me from

different perspective, which on
one side I appreciate.

On the other side I will say
like I'm still the same person.

Yeah, like I'm.
Thankful like that I can be

maybe seen like this and it's
also kind of big responsibility

especially for the younger
generation to be seen as kind of

leader and therefore the person
need to be really careful.

So like who which it's working.
So as you touch also on the

brands, there are many brands
which are trying to reach out.

Now and then the first thing
which I'm always looking for is

the quality also if that's the
brand which we have in a

portfolio or not really.
I'm branded now with the

contract.
So I can't really work with

other alcohol brands.
But you know like there are many

products from ice stamps across
different shakers or tools or

someone which like to
collaborate.

I appreciate if someone is
really having a great quality of

product and also trying to
become a personal, you know.

So if someone just send me an
e-mail like that, yeah, we like

to collaborate and here is the
contract offer I.

Kind of don't have really
sympathy to this one, you know.

I appreciate much more the
personal connection and if

someone really shows me like
that, he cares for the future.

Also for me is that I have
completely different feeling

than from someone who is just
reaching out across the e-mail

by a couple of words that is
already showing you that the

collaboration in the future will
be probably kind of very cold

and not really great if someone
like to.

Work with me, I always
appreciate a very personal

approach.
Nice.

I can relate to what you said.
And I mean, I've met you after

you were really famous, So I can
guarantee that you are a very

nice and humble guy.
Like, I was impressed by your

approach.
And also like, I mean, for me

it's very interesting because
I'm Italian, I live in Prague,

I've been living here for 13
years and before this I have

been living and working in the
Nordic country.

So I live. 3 1/2 years in
Finland, 1 1/2 years in Sweden,

one year in Denmark.
Actually, I'm missing Norway, so

we are quite complimentary on
that one.

But I've been to Oslo many times
for work with Peroni, and for me

it's very interesting because
you are really representing the

Czechoslovak bartender
community.

And what I've learned and what
I've got to know is that there

is always a big connection
between Italians and

Czechoslovak bartenders around
the world and.

Like why does that happen?
I'm just like just a note of

curiosity, like for the
listeners, how was this

connection between the those?
Countries that is like I think

like longterm relationship
between the Italian bar mafia

and Czechoslovak bar mafia,
right.

There is something about that
that we have probably

hospitality the roots a little
bit deeper than the other

countries somehow.
I'm pretty sure that also in

Italy was happening the same
thing.

But once we have been growing up
and you saw your parents how

they are hosting your neighbors
and there was a lot of good food

and some drinks, right?
I saw the same at home and we

have this kind of in a culture,
so it's very natural for us to

execute the hospitality on this
level.

It's something what you can see
also nowadays in many countries,

like if you have a look on the
Mecca bartending, which still

probably will be London or
Singapore nowadays, or cities in

Sydney for example.
Also in many great bars or in

most of the great bars there you
can see some Italians and also

many Czechoslovaks, so.
Yeah, there is something about

this one and I kind of feel
privileged you know to to be

part of 1 bar Mafia and have a
good relationship with the other

one because I think in a both
directions or both nationalities

there is something very
inspiring.

But together we are stronger.
So we are inspiring each other

and making the other part of
Mafia stronger.

So yeah, that's good
relationship for sure.

That's cool.
That's cool.

You mentioned how the bar scene
in the Nordics has changed and

developed and.
I can relate to that.

I mean I was living in the
Nordics 13 years ago and I

remember the bar scene was a
disaster.

I mean like to have good
cocktails.

I mean they were only like the
big establishments.

Of course they are still very
expensive, but they were also

very expensive back then, but
the quality was really low.

So like the the price tag on the
quality ratio has improved.

And also here in Prague, I've
seen like huge developments and

travel and I work with Prague
and Bratislava and Berno and so

on.
So what's your take like as

they're being kind of like a
back desk for us of like Czech

and Slovak bartenders coming
back from abroad that brought

some trends or?
How did it develop in the last

few years?
I think we now swap the sides

because I'm Czechoslovak and I
live in Nordics, right?

Of course, missing
Czechoslovakia.

And I'm always very happy to
come back.

The bar scenes there like Prague
or Bratislava are still like on

a broad level, like the Prague
scene or like the scene in Czech

Republic has been already
growing like. 20 years ago

somehow that has been seen and
compared to not the countries as

you said like in Oslo, like the
scene is super young, but there

was not really trendy trend of
cocktails here before.

I think it was not really also
demand but also like there has

been no people which probably
show to guests like that they

can bring also in this way.
So first cook the bar like on

the broad level I think like
here you know opened in 2015,

the guys from him cook and they
really brought like very

different concepts with the
micro blueberry and micro

distillery and they really
pushed for local things and

tried or basically created the
cocktails on a high level and

slowly.
Show this to the guests and to

people.
And the demand basically has

been growing.
This is our responsibility as

bartenders to teach people what
they will be drinking.

Because if you don't bring like
something new on the table as a

bartenders, new cocktails, new
products for example, like

people, they will be probably
still drinking a beer and show

the back.
We don't assign, right.

So this is our responsibility.
And if you show them the way, if

we show them like new trends,
new cocktails, new products,

they will get used to that and
of course they're expecting.

More and more.
So that's the same as we spoke

with the bands.
I think the on trend market of

course is not making that big
amount of sales in general.

But as I said, this is amazing
showroom for people which can

come and they can try that
product in the cocktail or by

itself for a small price and
then if they like it, I truly

believe that.
They can buy the bottle home if

button there will also speak
about that okay.

This product is high quality
because it's there's still two

times and then it's aged in this
way or the ingredients which is

made from they are like high
quality and you can also fill it

in a final product if this guest
is convinced and it's like.

He believes in that what we are
saying.

So then they are also becoming
external ambassadors for the

brand.
So they will share this

knowledge also with the friends
and I think it has the power of

spreading if you have correct
product and correct informations

about that around that.
So the people they can basically

be promoting this product by
themselves.

So I think again it's very
important for the brands to try

to become personal with the
bartenders and give them the

knowledge and the motivation to
work with these products.

You mentioned like a couple of
times and it's very interesting

what you said about the split on
trade, off trade and the

importance of on trade being
recognized.

And what I know this is that
there are a couple of things

like first of all like I think
there's been a a lot of new

people entering the industry and
that's why I was asking you that

question about the drinks
industry and the hospitality

industry.
Because for me I feel when I

work with brands, I call them
like are you an on trade guy or

or an off trade guy or a girl
because there's a lot of people

that.
Came from the off trade

industry.
So like dairy products,

cosmetics, they were not used to
drink with, not to drink but to

to work with drinks brands.
And then some people came really

bottom up from being sales
people or loving the on trade

and so on and so those people
get it.

But then the off trade people
like they need to be educated

around it, not even sometimes
even like how to behave in bars

and restaurant now.
And what's counter intuitive for

me and it's very interesting is
that in countries like for

example the Nordics in which the
off trade accounts for 80I mean

sometimes even 90% depending on
the category of the sales.

There are so few places in the
on Trade that the on trade

becomes really the make it or
break it elements because

basically you go into 10 or 20
bars in Oslo that really make

the difference.
While for example if you're in

London, I mean there are
hundreds of bars and restaurant

to influence that can make the
difference.

So The funny thing is that it's
counterintuitive.

The smaller the on trade share
the more important on trade is

because there are fewer places
and.

You are more likely as a
consumer to end up there and get

the famous league.
We don't.

Leave absolutely with this one.
I will add some information also

here for people who are
listening that we have very

different conditions for example
compared to London or like

Czechoslovakia in general here
the brands, they cannot really

promote the alcohol on a social
media for example.

They can do the events but they
can't place the advertisement to

television for example.
Yeah, I think here in a Norway

for example we as a bartenders
we have.

Village to maybe use like some
extra budgets from the brands

which are using us as a
bartenders for the promotion and

maybe that's also the reason why
this extra care about the

bartenders.
Or bartenders from the brand

representatives is here because
that's kind of only the way how

they can shout out and spread
the name to the world across the

bartenders.
It's kind of good for us and

plus compared to other markets,
but yeah, everyone needs to work

with what they have, right.
So in some of the markets like

unfortunately we don't have
these opportunities.

But yeah, that's how we have it
and I'm super happy for that.

Yeah.
That's a great point what you're

raising because actually I'm
very thankful that I started

working actually in the Nordics.
Because that's what I trained

on.
So basically for me advertising

has never been an option.
So for me I'm very against

advertising because it's always
like for me, you make the

investments in the trade and in
events and in things that people

can really relate to in a very
bottom up approach rather than

top down.
And sooner or later regulation

will always be tougher and
tougher.

So sooner or later the on trade
will will always be more

important than that on media
span because that's ultimately

where you gain the experience,
right.

Moving on, I'm a big advocate of
this drinks ecosystem kind of

thinking how we are bringing
different perspective.

You mentioned like distributors,
importers, there's many players

in this world is not only brand
and bartender, there's a lot of

steps in between.
How do they they approach you?

Do you feel that they have done
their homework before entering

your bar?
Have they studied what you do,

your back bar, your list or so
on, or or do they play that kind

of broken record narrative all
the time without, you know, like

with you versus the the next
door, the bar next door kind?

Of like that's very individual.
I would say it's the same as

someone asking.
You for a job and some people

they do homework.
Some people they don't even know

like where or which bar they are
entering, they just want the

job.
So with the brands is also the

same like they are sometimes
coming people which knows about

the bar, they have informations,
they know what we are doing that

we are for example focused for
the cocktails and they are

straight coming like OK cool,
like I have a product which you

might use in the cocktails,
yeah, but they are of course

coming people, which sometimes
they want to of course just sell

the product, you know and they
don't have any clue.

About who we are, many times it
happened that they are also

coming people to try sell wines
like I I like wine in general

but the we have like just very
few of wines since like we are

cocktail bar and we are highly
focused for the cocktails And it

has been situations that someone
is coming with the organic

wines.
You know special like we have

like 10 types of white wine and
you need to take it as a package

of course like this person
doesn't absolutely know like

where he entered which part he
entered.

Most of the time with the spirit
brands that people they really

know like Okay, you are guys for
cocktails, I have something cool

for you and that's a great start
for the future collaboration

because they really understand
our DNA also and they bought

Extra Mile, they really have
something to offer for us which

can be great fit into our
product like cocktails for

example.
So I like to work with these

people, they do homework and all
the bar and they try to find

some information about you and
then also communication is much

easier, also much easier I
think.

For them to sell it because they
already know Okay if I have good

Gene and pardon this is good
cocktail bar.

So I have a couple of different
ways how they can use it in

which kind of cocktails and they
are also helping us to decide of

course then for collaboration we
always see for quality, we're

trying to find high quality of
the product and.

Basically given chance even to
small producers, to local

producers for example, if the
quality of the product is great

and also there is dispute
communication between us, the

relationship is becoming more
like personal.

So then it's higher chance that
we really believe in the product

and we want to use it on the
menu.

Building on this Levius, this is
a very interesting point like

you are very well connected.
You're probably one of the most

well connected bartenders around
the world and.

If a brand is worth it, you
probably have heard about it,

right from friends, on social
media, within your network or

your ties and so on to the
Italian.

And checkers connections.
How does it work when if I go

and I represent the brand that?
You have never heard of like I

just enter your bar and I try to
sell you something and you

think, what the hell is this guy
doing?

I've never heard about this
brand.

What's your reaction?
It always depends like we're

trying to give chance to all the
brands and we're looking at

first for the quality.
If the person is just like

coming and just shooting
something on us, there is not so

much information around or.
They don't know even who we are.

So then it's like probably a
lower chance that we will work

together.
But always as I said, we try to

find high quality and if person
is nice and has a good product,

then he's trying to create
strong relationships straight

from the beginning.
So then it's like a much higher

chance yet that we will use this
product always.

Of course, as I said, we also
work as a team.

We definitely take the samples
always and we'll give this brand

or this liquid to more people
from the team and we're trying

to find a common conclusion if
the product is good quality and

we want to work with that as a
team.

I'm talking about this.
Who makes the call?

Because this is something that
listeners are interested about,

especially from you.
Is it the bar owner?

Is it the bar manager?
There's a lot of confusion in

all the steps in the system.
The bar owner?

The bar manager?
Is it like the younger guys and

girls in the team that are
coming with the bots so that

they've tried somewhere?
How does it work with the

decision making progress?
It has like couple of different

angles.
We bartenders, we know each

other.
So if someone recommends like a

cool product which he discovered
somewhere on a bar show or maybe

any kind of exhibition or
someone just walked into his

bar.
If I hear about something, I'm

trying to also maybe get it on
my market.

And work with it or get it into
my bar.

Many times there are like just
people which are bringing in new

products.
But as I said, we work as a team

and we're trying to create a
collection of the brands which

we want to use or possibly might
use.

On the menu and then the
decision is from all team

members, if we really see
potential in the product, we

stand behind the idea to get it.
And then of course it's like a

bar manager to list it and
assign the contract with the

distributor.
But we try to work as a team

always.
That's very important.

You know, we all of us, we are
human beings and I think.

That the decision should be made
by a whole team like partending

is not the individual sport, is
the team sport, right.

And like there is also higher
chance that we will be selling

that product actively if all of
us we want to have that product.

If there is like just bar
manager who will decide like you

will have this product now and
if the bartenders they are not

connected to the brand and they
don't believe in the quality

then the the bottle is just
standing on the shelf, right.

So I think it should be kind of
decision of faulting that OK

this is something what we really
want to work with any school

product and we believe in that.
Remember that this is a two-part

episode, so if you liked it,
feel free to listen to both part

one and two of our chat.
That's all for today.

So thank you for joining me on
the Mafair Drinks podcast.

I hope you have gained valuable
insights in these episodes.

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please review it and share it

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I would really appreciate it.

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Until next time, cheers from the

Mather Drinks podcast and
remember that brands are built

bottom up.