04: The Year of Livewire

Ian & Aaron discuss what's new with Screencasting.com & HelloQuery, why LinkedIn might not be terrible, and why 2024 is going to be the year of Livewire.

Sponsored by LaraJobs & HelloQuery.

Sent questions or feedback to [e-mail]

Links for this week's episode:

• Ian's tweet about Taylor Swift
• National Postal Museum
• TopGolf
• HelpSpot
• IanLandsman.com
• Aaron's tweet about working on his website
• Advanced Inertia by Boris Lepikhin
• Ian's tweet about the year of Livewire
• Philo Hermans' website

Creators & Guests

Host

Aaron Francis

Co-founder https://t.co/iQBe3dPhc1.Sincere poster. No cynicism. Dad to two sets of twins! 🖥️ https://t.co/wIdhAlsrlX 📹 https://t.co/hM9ogEIevT🎤 @MostlyTechPod

Host

Ian Landsman

Founder HelpSpot, LaraJobs, and Laracon Online.

Producer

Dave Hicking

@UserScape Product Manager. Previously at @TightenCo, @BeineckeLibrary, & @uconnlibrary. 1/2 of @CRSPodcast (I'm @doc_beats). 1/3 of @cheese_weather.

What is Mostly Technical?

Hosted by Ian Landsman and Aaron Francis, Mostly Technical is a lively discussion on Laravel, business, and an eclectic mix of related topics.

[Ian Landsman]: Hello?

[Aaron]: Welcome back. We're gonna start right
away. I got a bone to pick with you, Ian.

[Ian Landsman]: Oh baby,

[Aaron]: Yeah, welcome home from vacation.

[Ian Landsman]: I love some

[Aaron]: You said

[Ian Landsman]: controversy.

[Aaron]: on Twitter that Taylor Swift is the
greatest business person of her generation,

[Aaron]: as if Taylor Swift and I weren't born
in 1989, the same year. So here's the issue.

[Aaron]: If we're judging by money or

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: sold out stadiums or... Cultural Impact
or

[Ian Landsman]: Sure.

[Aaron]: Platinum Albums? Sure, fine, she's
the best. If we're judging by maintained and

[Aaron]: half maintained GitHub repos, I'm on
the list. I

[Ian Landsman]: You're out

[Aaron]: gotta

[Ian Landsman]: there.

[Aaron]: be above her, right?

[Ian Landsman]: You have to be right? I think

[Aaron]: Okay,

[Ian Landsman]: so. I

[Aaron]: so

[Ian Landsman]: can't imagine

[Aaron]: I guess my point

[Ian Landsman]: her.

[Aaron]: is, what are we judging on is the question.

[Ian Landsman]: I can't imagine her GitHub repo
game is as strong as yours, right? Like

[Aaron]: I appreciate

[Ian Landsman]: I just can't.

[Aaron]: that.

[Ian Landsman]: I just can't.

[Aaron]: I was just looking for a little, like,
a little nuance to the conversation.

[Ian Landsman]: Oh man, yeah, I know it's, uh,
she's so good. I don't know, but yeah.

[Aaron]: So she's now selling, she's now outselling
like Avengers in pre, what is it? She's doing

[Aaron]: a concert movie that she's pre-selling?

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah, so she's had like the
biggest concert series ever over this past

[Ian Landsman]: year. And it actually continues
into next year. But, uh, you know, tickets

[Ian Landsman]: are, I don't know, a friend
of mine, uh, just bought tickets for like $3,000

[Ian Landsman]: a ticket for next November.
So, I mean, it's

[Aaron]: Oh

[Ian Landsman]: insane.

[Aaron]: my gosh.

[Ian Landsman]: Um, and so she's been on this
tour. and she's been recording, you know, obviously

[Ian Landsman]: she's recording videos of herself.
I think

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: all artists do this, like they
record the audio and the video, whatever, just

[Ian Landsman]: in case they ever wanna use
it for something. But she's obviously got more

[Ian Landsman]: of a plan than that, and she's
releasing it in the movie theaters. So you

[Ian Landsman]: can go see it in this break
of the tour over the winter, she's not

[Aaron]: Amazing.

[Ian Landsman]: performing till next spring,
she's gonna have the movie, so people who can't

[Ian Landsman]: spend $3,000 can go see it in
the movie theater 20 bucks or whatever. So

[Ian Landsman]: I of course got tickets to go
see

[Aaron]: Of

[Ian Landsman]: it

[Aaron]: course,

[Ian Landsman]: in IMAX.

[Aaron]: yeah!

[Ian Landsman]: You know, I need a seven story
Taylor Swift

[Aaron]: Of course.

[Ian Landsman]: and yeah, I'm pretty excited
about

[Aaron]: Yep.

[Ian Landsman]: that.

[Aaron]: My wife and several of our friends
went to the tour and they

[Ian Landsman]: Mm-hmm.

[Aaron]: resurrected the group chat and were
like, all right, when are we buying tickets

[Aaron]: to go see the movie? It's like, yeah,
of course

[Ian Landsman]: You

[Aaron]: they're

[Ian Landsman]: gotta

[Aaron]: going to go

[Ian Landsman]: see

[Aaron]: see

[Ian Landsman]: it. Yeah. All the

[Aaron]: it.

[Ian Landsman]: angles

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: you can see.

[Aaron]: I think I saw AMC movie theaters said
that they were like beefing up their infrastructure

[Aaron]: so that they could start doing the
presale. and somebody was like talking about

[Aaron]: how Taylor Swift is an ops queen because
she's making all of these companies

[Ian Landsman]: Hehehehe

[Aaron]: increase their ops so that they can
handle the rush.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah, and that's what you were
saying, is that AMC broke all kinds of records

[Ian Landsman]: for presales

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: and things. And yeah, so I mean,
she's just gonna print all the money. It's

[Ian Landsman]: like, she's totally ready, right?
She's had a plan. Like, I didn't even consider

[Ian Landsman]: this. I don't think

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: many people even thought about
it. I don't think anybody knew about it. And

[Ian Landsman]: she just comes out of the blue,
obviously well planned, not actually out of

[Ian Landsman]: the blue. And it's like, boom,
oh, tour's ended for this year. Here it is

[Ian Landsman]: in the movie theater. Everybody

[Aaron]: Yep.

[Ian Landsman]: can go. And...

[Aaron]: And super smart that she didn't cannibalize
her own tour sales, because

[Ian Landsman]: Yes,

[Aaron]: it wasn't like, there

[Ian Landsman]: wait

[Aaron]: will be

[Ian Landsman]: on that.

[Aaron]: a movie, you don't have to come.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah,

[Aaron]: Nope.

[Ian Landsman]: nope. She's and then while the
iron's hot, right, while

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm

[Ian Landsman]: everybody's talking about it
and it's a huge cultural moment, it's like,

[Ian Landsman]: boom, nope, it keeps going.
We're not stopping the train. Here's here's

[Ian Landsman]: the movie version. And obviously,

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: then there'll be the home version
and blah, blah. And yeah, so I mean, it's just

[Ian Landsman]: going to lead

[Aaron]: Okay,

[Ian Landsman]: into

[Aaron]: I will allow

[Ian Landsman]: next year.

[Aaron]: it. I will allow her to edge me out
for business person of the year 1989. That

[Aaron]: sounds fine to me.

[Ian Landsman]: What an honor that you were
born in the same

[Aaron]: Right?

[Ian Landsman]: year as Taylor Swift.

[Aaron]: I know.

[Ian Landsman]: That's, that's amazing. I wish

[Aaron]: I

[Ian Landsman]: I could

[Aaron]: know.

[Ian Landsman]: say that. Unbelievable.

[Aaron]: I know. It's really it's an honor and
it's also like, oh, dang, we're the same age.

[Aaron]: Shoot, that sucks.

[Ian Landsman]: She's a little ahead.

[Aaron]: Yeah. We're playing a different game,

[Ian Landsman]: Money

[Aaron]: that's

[Ian Landsman]: wise,

[Aaron]: all. We're, yeah,

[Ian Landsman]: yeah, different

[Aaron]: money-wise,

[Ian Landsman]: game.

[Aaron]: not open source repo-wise.

[Ian Landsman]: You know, if you listen to her
songs, you know, she has not done so well in

[Ian Landsman]: the love department. And I think
you're ahead in the love

[Aaron]: That

[Ian Landsman]: department

[Aaron]: is true.

[Ian Landsman]: and the kid department and all
the, that end of the world, you're in the lead.

[Aaron]: That is

[Ian Landsman]: You're

[Aaron]: true, that is

[Ian Landsman]: just

[Aaron]: a

[Ian Landsman]: behind

[Aaron]: very good

[Ian Landsman]: on the

[Aaron]: point.

[Ian Landsman]: money, but you're working on
that.

[Aaron]: But

[Ian Landsman]: We

[Aaron]: we'll

[Ian Landsman]: got

[Aaron]: get

[Ian Landsman]: you there.

[Aaron]: there, yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: We'll get there, y'all come to my movie.
Okay, so you're back.

[Ian Landsman]: I'm back and you're back. This

[Aaron]: We're all

[Ian Landsman]: is the

[Aaron]: back.

[Ian Landsman]: first episode that we're in

[Aaron]: Uh-huh.

[Ian Landsman]: our, both in home turf. So

[Aaron]: That's right.

[Ian Landsman]: this is exciting.

[Aaron]: How was the

[Ian Landsman]: Proper

[Aaron]: return

[Ian Landsman]: cameras.

[Aaron]: home?

[Ian Landsman]: Good. We also had a long, you
know, you were on a long trip. This

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: is like the longest trip, like
road trip, I think we've really ever taken

[Ian Landsman]: down to the Outer Banks. So
that was a bit of a haul, but the kids are

[Ian Landsman]: big now. So it wasn't too bad,
not too much fighting and crying and stuff

[Ian Landsman]: like that. Everybody's...

[Aaron]: That's good.

[Ian Landsman]: humanoid now, which is awesome.

[Aaron]: Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe

[Ian Landsman]: And so, uh, yeah. So we actually
stopped in DC both ways to, uh, just like break

[Ian Landsman]: up the trip to avoid the 11
or 12 hours straight through. Um, and

[Aaron]: Did

[Ian Landsman]: that

[Aaron]: y'all do

[Ian Landsman]: worked

[Aaron]: any

[Ian Landsman]: out nice.

[Aaron]: like sightseeing or was it just overnight?

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah. The first, the way down,
we did do say singing. We've been there a few

[Ian Landsman]: times before, but, um, you know,
kind of walked the national mall,

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: I love the Lincoln Memorial.
It's my favorite. So hit up Lincoln. Um, did

[Ian Landsman]: that kind of area. And then
I know we went out to dinner, whatnot. And

[Ian Landsman]: then way back, we were gonna
go to the postal museum. We didn't even realize

[Ian Landsman]: there was a postal

[Aaron]: Oh.

[Ian Landsman]: museum. We were like, oh, postal
museum. But anyway, it didn't happen.

[Aaron]: What is that?

[Ian Landsman]: We got

[Aaron]: Just

[Ian Landsman]: there

[Aaron]: a bunch

[Ian Landsman]: too

[Aaron]: of

[Ian Landsman]: late.

[Aaron]: letters? Or what do

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah,

[Aaron]: they have

[Ian Landsman]: this

[Aaron]: there?

[Ian Landsman]: is what the kids theory was.
Like it's just stamps.

[Aaron]: That's just

[Ian Landsman]: Not

[Aaron]: lost

[Ian Landsman]: going to see

[Aaron]: mail.

[Ian Landsman]: just stamps. Yeah, it's all
lost mail. So I don't know what's there because

[Ian Landsman]: I didn't get to it because we
got

[Aaron]: Oh, well.

[Ian Landsman]: going kind of late and then
it wasn't gonna work out. So everybody was

[Ian Landsman]: exhausted. But we just went
into the hotel. I played poker because there

[Ian Landsman]: was a

[Aaron]: Did

[Ian Landsman]: reasonable

[Aaron]: you win?

[Ian Landsman]: casino there. I lost a few hundred
dollars, so not too

[Aaron]: Ah!

[Ian Landsman]: bad. But I did play like a super
long session and it was a good game. Like there

[Ian Landsman]: was, it was a great game actually,
but I just couldn't find the right spots.

[Aaron]: If I know anything about gambling and
I don't, the strategy is you should chase your

[Aaron]: losses. I think that's what you're
supposed

[Ian Landsman]: Right?

[Aaron]: to do.

[Ian Landsman]: Ha ha

[Aaron]: Like

[Ian Landsman]: ha.

[Aaron]: if you're down, you just keep playing
and eventually it turns around.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah, so I mean, this is sort
of the level, it was like a five, 10 for those

[Ian Landsman]: of you who play poker. So $300
loss is actually like almost kind of even,

[Ian Landsman]: which is fine.

[Aaron]: Yeah, 510, that feels like a lot.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah,

[Aaron]: Feels like

[Ian Landsman]: that's

[Aaron]: a

[Ian Landsman]: a

[Aaron]: big

[Ian Landsman]: bigger

[Aaron]: game.

[Ian Landsman]: game than I normally play, yeah.
So,

[Aaron]: Jeez.

[Ian Landsman]: but you know, when I have these
opportunities to play bigger games, I like

[Ian Landsman]: to take it because like where
I play locally never has that. So,

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: that was good. But we went to
Topgolf. That's the thing we did that

[Aaron]: Oh

[Ian Landsman]: night.

[Aaron]: nice.

[Ian Landsman]: We went to Topgolf, which that
was another first. So we did the Waffle House,

[Ian Landsman]: first time at Waffle House,
first

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: time at Topgolf. And that was
a lot of fun. Food was better than I expected.

[Ian Landsman]: And whatever, just get out there
and smack the golf ball around a bit.

[Aaron]: Yeah,

[Ian Landsman]: So that was cool.

[Aaron]: it's fun. It's fun that they bring
the food and drink out to you. And

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah, just gonna hang

[Aaron]: it's

[Ian Landsman]: out.

[Aaron]: like, you know, it's bar food, but
it's so fun. I don't even

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah,

[Aaron]: like

[Ian Landsman]: yeah.

[Aaron]: golf, but it's a lot

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: of fun.

[Ian Landsman]: I don't love golf either. My
middle kid is kind of in this. I don't know.

[Ian Landsman]: He's picked up golf in the last
month and he's kind of super in the zone on

[Ian Landsman]: it. So

[Aaron]: That's fun.

[Ian Landsman]: he was all jazzed and, um, yeah,
it was good. That was good. So, but good to

[Ian Landsman]: be back. I have like

[Aaron]: Good.

[Ian Landsman]: 8 million things to do.

[Aaron]: Yeah, that's what I was gonna

[Ian Landsman]: Um,

[Aaron]: ask. How's the return

[Ian Landsman]: yeah.

[Aaron]: to

[Ian Landsman]: So.

[Aaron]: the office life for you?

[Ian Landsman]: Man, it's been a crazy morning

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: already. This is the first day
back. It's absolutely bananas. We're doing

[Ian Landsman]: this like, for HelpSpot, we're
rolling out this new store. So HelpSpot has,

[Ian Landsman]: it's not like a regular SaaS
app or in the app you do things. It's got this

[Ian Landsman]: whole store set up that's separate
from the app. Because we, partially because

[Ian Landsman]: it's ancient and so that's

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: like how you did things in the
old days when you had on-premise apps, but

[Ian Landsman]: also. We do a lot of other stuff
that isn't even that easy to do with Stripe,

[Ian Landsman]: even still like invoicing,

[Aaron]: Mmm.

[Ian Landsman]: I know they do invoicing, but
we handle all kinds of different types of payment

[Ian Landsman]: and you can send us a

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: check and whatever, blah, blah.
So we have our own thing for that. And so that's

[Ian Landsman]: a new version that's rolling
out today. And in the middle

[Aaron]: today.

[Ian Landsman]: of that. Yeah. So they're working
on that. The guys are cranking away on that.

[Ian Landsman]: And then, uh, I come back to
like other, other decisions I made before I

[Ian Landsman]: left that I don't love, so I'm
fixing those decisions and then,

[Aaron]: Ah,

[Ian Landsman]: um,

[Aaron]: yes.

[Ian Landsman]: And then, uh, and then in the
middle of all that, I got one of these emails

[Ian Landsman]: where like, so I've had IanLansman.com
for whatever, 20 something years, right?

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: And one of these Reuters images,
you know, copyright royalty

[Aaron]: Mm.

[Ian Landsman]: services, uh, has hunted me
down and found an image I used in 2005.

[Aaron]: Hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: on a blog post and they want,
you know, $2,000. So

[Aaron]: What?

[Ian Landsman]: now I gotta go through all that
headache. So I like took

[Aaron]: What?

[Ian Landsman]: that down. But of course, like
my site is built on like an ancient version

[Ian Landsman]: of Jigsaw. So even just taking
down

[Aaron]: Oh

[Ian Landsman]: the page

[Aaron]: yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: was like,

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: I had to like update the whole
thing and like whatever. So I got that done,

[Ian Landsman]: got

[Aaron]: Wait,

[Ian Landsman]: the page

[Aaron]: so

[Ian Landsman]: taken down.

[Aaron]: somebody tracked you down for... What
is it? I guess a copyright violation?

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah, like I embedded a Reuters
image in a blog post in 2005. Um, probably

[Ian Landsman]: just, yeah, not obviously intentionally,
uh, from somewhere else

[Aaron]: Yeah, it

[Ian Landsman]: that

[Aaron]: was 2005,

[Ian Landsman]: presumably.

[Aaron]: it was run and gun, baby.

[Ian Landsman]: I know. So they have these services.
You know, this is just the way they're making

[Ian Landsman]: who knows. I'm sure they make
millions of dollars a quarter on juicing their

[Ian Landsman]: numbers by hunting down random
blog posts and sending threatening letters.

[Ian Landsman]: So.

[Aaron]: So are you free and clear now? Are
you just gonna ignore it?

[Ian Landsman]: I mean, it just happened this
morning. I took it down. You are absolutely

[Ian Landsman]: not free and clear when

[Aaron]: This

[Ian Landsman]: you take

[Aaron]: is

[Ian Landsman]: it

[Aaron]: legal

[Ian Landsman]: down.

[Aaron]: advice, so yeah, if you're paying attention,
we're both attorneys for sure.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah, so I think, you know,
whatever. It's one of these games, right? Where

[Ian Landsman]: like, I'm always gonna push
back on them. Hopefully they cut it down a

[Ian Landsman]: little bit. Do I think? I could
win in court. Like, I mean, I don't know, probably

[Ian Landsman]: not, to be honest with you,
because like,

[Aaron]: Hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: I use this image, it was there.

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: Um, you know, obviously when
it's a thousand dollars or let's say we get

[Ian Landsman]: down to like a thousand dollars,
like,

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: can I hire a lawyer and fight
them for a thousand dollars? Do I want to like

[Ian Landsman]: go through? Right. So it's this
whole thing. The main thing I was worried about

[Ian Landsman]: is, is it even real? So

[Aaron]: Right.

[Ian Landsman]: I went through all that. It
does seem to be real. So I don't know. It's

[Ian Landsman]: like this game where

[Aaron]: She

[Ian Landsman]: it's

[Aaron]: is.

[Ian Landsman]: not enough money to fight it.
So

[Aaron]: Right?

[Ian Landsman]: you're just kinda stuck paying
the ransom for this ridiculous blog post that

[Ian Landsman]: nobody's ever seen.

[Aaron]: Right.

[Ian Landsman]: And even when it was new in
2005, 50 people saw it. Whatever. So I went

[Ian Landsman]: through every other image that's
up there in my

[Aaron]: Oh gosh.

[Ian Landsman]: ancient history of blogs, uh,
and made sure there was nothing else to lead

[Ian Landsman]: a few things that whatever I
knew they weren't my images. Uh, I don't think

[Ian Landsman]: they didn't seem good enough
to be Reuters images,

[Aaron]: I'm sorry.

[Ian Landsman]: but whatever they were just
whatever delete them. So anyway, so that's

[Aaron]: Wow,

[Ian Landsman]: been my

[Aaron]: welcome

[Ian Landsman]: crazy

[Aaron]: home,

[Ian Landsman]: return

[Aaron]: that sucks.

[Ian Landsman]: to work. Exactly. So

[Aaron]: Now

[Ian Landsman]: how's

[Aaron]: I'm thinking

[Ian Landsman]: things with you?

[Aaron]: we should start a business that exploits
those images and

[Ian Landsman]: Ha ha.

[Aaron]: emails and demands payment. That sounds
pretty awesome.

[Ian Landsman]: This is exactly what my wife
said. She's like, we needed one of these gigs.

[Ian Landsman]: I'm like,

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: yeah. Or what about we take
the white hat version of that, a service that

[Ian Landsman]: checks your websites and says,
hey,

[Aaron]: Okay.

[Ian Landsman]: some of these images look a
little iffy. You might want to clean this up

[Ian Landsman]: before these bad guys get ahold

[Aaron]: before

[Ian Landsman]: of you.

[Aaron]: we sell

[Ian Landsman]: So,

[Aaron]: the lead to the bad guys who are

[Ian Landsman]: right.

[Aaron]: gonna sue you.

[Ian Landsman]: Right, exactly.

[Aaron]: I think that's like a protection racket.
So

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah,

[Aaron]: yeah,

[Ian Landsman]: I love

[Aaron]: probably

[Ian Landsman]: a good gangster,

[Aaron]: no good there. Yeah,

[Ian Landsman]: gangster thing. You know, I'm
big

[Aaron]: yeah,

[Ian Landsman]: on the gangsters.

[Aaron]: yeah. Things are good over here. We
tried to do potty training for the kids over

[Aaron]: the weekend. Just total epic disaster.
Just

[Ian Landsman]: Ha ha ha.

[Aaron]: not even close to working.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: Um, so we didn't, uh, let's see, we
didn't fail. We're just going to try again

[Aaron]: later. We, we put,

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: we put a hold on it and said, okay,
this isn't, this isn't working. They are a

[Aaron]: little young to be fair. And

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: so we're just going to try again later.
But boy, that was the worst. That was not great.

[Aaron]: That was super not great.

[Ian Landsman]: Do they have an interest yet
or they're not really interested?

[Aaron]: Um, they're not really interested.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah,

[Aaron]: I'll be honest.

[Ian Landsman]: I think

[Aaron]: They're

[Ian Landsman]: it's

[Aaron]: just

[Ian Landsman]: hard

[Aaron]: interested

[Ian Landsman]: until

[Aaron]: in

[Ian Landsman]: they're

[Aaron]: like

[Ian Landsman]: interested.

[Aaron]: peeing on the floor.

[Ian Landsman]: Right,

[Aaron]: And it's like,

[Ian Landsman]: yeah.

[Aaron]: okay,

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: this is gross. Yeah, not a huge fan
of that. I'll be honest.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah, until they get the interest,
until they're showing interest in like the

[Ian Landsman]: toilet and stuff, I feel

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: like it's kind of, it's gonna
be rough there.

[Aaron]: Yeah, so back to diapers and everybody's
happy. Kids are at school today and so

[Ian Landsman]: Woohoo!

[Aaron]: my wife is feeling very light and free.
So

[Ian Landsman]: It's

[Aaron]: yeah,

[Ian Landsman]: always good.

[Aaron]: much, much better. Yeah, and then yesterday
was Labor Day and I did a little, I had a little

[Aaron]: fun me time and just redesigned my
site a little bit. Actually, that's totally

[Aaron]: not fair. Hugo, the designer at Tupel.
redesigned my personal site and then Jason

[Ian Landsman]: Nice.

[Aaron]: Beggs, a good guy Jason, built

[Ian Landsman]: Go.

[Aaron]: out a lot of it. And then you know
when you get a design done and then you start

[Aaron]: to put the real content in and you're
like, Oh man, I didn't tell the designer about

[Aaron]: this part

[Ian Landsman]: Right?

[Aaron]: and they couldn't have known and so
I'm gonna, I am going to tweak it which usually

[Aaron]: means like destroy the design.

[Ian Landsman]: Sir.

[Aaron]: But that's what I've spent a few hours
doing was like playing around with how am I

[Aaron]: gonna fit this content into this design
and It was fun, you know, tailwind, still pretty

[Aaron]: great, still

[Ian Landsman]: It's

[Aaron]: love

[Ian Landsman]: awesome.

[Aaron]: it.

[Ian Landsman]: It's the goat.

[Aaron]: I used some of those wild like descendant
selectors, very,

[Ian Landsman]: Mmm.

[Aaron]: very cool, lot of fun. So

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: yeah, a good distraction after a weekend
filled with very few wins, I will say.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah, those potty training days,
those are rough. Those are just brutal. It's

[Ian Landsman]: just brutal. Especially I can't
imagine two at once. Forget even just one is

[Ian Landsman]: a disaster. Two is

[Aaron]: Yep,

[Ian Landsman]: yeah.

[Aaron]: it scales linearly, I think.

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: It was a double

[Ian Landsman]: Linear

[Aaron]: disaster,

[Ian Landsman]: is good.

[Aaron]: yeah, for

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: sure.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah. You might have to do one
at a time just because they're twins doesn't

[Ian Landsman]: mean you have to do them both
at the same

[Aaron]: I know.

[Ian Landsman]: time too. So you could

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: whichever one takes an interest
that might help get the other one interested

[Ian Landsman]: once the one's doing it. You
know, then

[Aaron]: Yeah, that's

[Ian Landsman]: kind

[Aaron]: true.

[Ian Landsman]: of kind of go

[Aaron]: That's

[Ian Landsman]: that

[Aaron]: a

[Ian Landsman]: route

[Aaron]: good point.

[Ian Landsman]: with it. Yeah. Man, how's the
I've seen some people talking about screencasting.com

[Ian Landsman]: videos

[Aaron]: Yep.

[Ian Landsman]: as if they've seen them But
then

[Aaron]: Yep.

[Ian Landsman]: I checked and it wasn't launched.
So I don't know if you have some people like

[Aaron]: I got

[Ian Landsman]: in

[Aaron]: some

[Ian Landsman]: there

[Aaron]: people

[Ian Landsman]: testing

[Aaron]: on the mailing

[Ian Landsman]: it out

[Aaron]: list, man. So

[Ian Landsman]: Okay

[Aaron]: I'm trying to do the whole like, hey,
sign up for the mailing list, I'll send you

[Aaron]: stuff. Sign

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: up for the mailing list, I'll send
you stuff. And it's working.

[Ian Landsman]: Mm.

[Aaron]: And so I've sent out a preview of maybe
like three or four of the lessons. And then

[Aaron]: I've started to do, I started to solicit
videos from other people. Be like, send me

[Aaron]: your video, I'll do a video review
of your video.

[Ian Landsman]: Mmm.

[Aaron]: And I've sent out a few of those like,
I actually have sent out one of those teardowns

[Aaron]: and I have another one going out to
the list today. And so it's kind of like, you

[Aaron]: know, the incentive to sign up for
the list is you'll get some content early and

[Aaron]: then

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: hopefully when launch time comes, the
list will be, you know, bigger enough to make

[Aaron]: a difference. So yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: What are you looking at for
launch? When, when are you thinking that's

[Ian Landsman]: going

[Aaron]: I

[Ian Landsman]: to

[Aaron]: think,

[Ian Landsman]: happen?

[Aaron]: yeah, I think so today we're recording
is September 5th. I think it's going to be

[Aaron]: September, what is it? 20th maybe?
Whatever the Wednesday of that week

[Ian Landsman]: Okay,

[Aaron]: is. I think it's

[Ian Landsman]: oh,

[Aaron]: like two and

[Ian Landsman]: pretty

[Aaron]: a half

[Ian Landsman]: close.

[Aaron]: weeks away. Yeah, very

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: close. Um, so a lot of good, a lot
of good stuff happening there. I've also started

[Aaron]: to reach out to people to do, um, like
a screencaster spotlights. And

[Ian Landsman]: Mmm.

[Aaron]: so we got one in already, uh, Mateus
who's a, you know, friend of Laravel.

[Ian Landsman]: Yep.

[Aaron]: I reached out to him and I was like,
hey man, I would love for you to do a video

[Aaron]: on like, hey, I'm Matthias, this is
what I do, here's kind of my setup, this is

[Aaron]: my camera, my microphone, here's what
I like, here's what I don't like. So do like

[Aaron]: a short, you know, three to five minute
video on that

[Ian Landsman]: Mm-hmm.

[Aaron]: and then on the page have it listed
below of like, here's all the gear that Matthias

[Aaron]: uses, here are the links where you
can find

[Ian Landsman]: Mmm.

[Aaron]: Matthias' stuff. That way, you know,
it's a fun, like it's a fun... way for people

[Aaron]: to see what other people are doing.

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: If they start to look around at different
cameras and microphones, they can look at some

[Aaron]: of these other screencasters and be
like, oh, this guy uses the camera I was thinking

[Aaron]: about using, let me watch his video
or something like that. And I think it'll be

[Aaron]: good like social, drive social behavior,
right? Because then

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah. Ahem.

[Aaron]: every screencaster that we spotlight
is gonna wanna send people over there and be

[Aaron]: like, hey. look at this thing I have
on Screencasting.com that has like a backlink

[Aaron]: to my, you know, to my screencasting
stuff. And so trying to round out some of the

[Aaron]: content there to make the site a little
bit heavier for SEO and social stuff.

[Ian Landsman]: And everybody loves gear posts.
Like gear posts,

[Aaron]: Loves

[Ian Landsman]: just

[Aaron]: it, yes.

[Ian Landsman]: classic win. Like you're just
gonna have people wandering through there just

[Ian Landsman]: cause why not? I just love seeing
what gear people are using and what they're

[Ian Landsman]: doing with it and everything.
So that's a definite win there. Yeah, and the

[Ian Landsman]: things to work together, definitely
useful to just like, yeah, which camera maybe

[Ian Landsman]: I already have a piece of something.
Like maybe

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: I can see like, well, what are
people pairing with this and how's that going

[Ian Landsman]: and everything. So yeah, I liked
that a lot, especially with like, if they have

[Ian Landsman]: something a little bit to write
up about. how they like it or just like, is

[Ian Landsman]: there a trick? Like, oh, you
need to do this or the microphone

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: setup should be that, especially
with the mic stuff tends to be a lot of

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: things like that. Or specific
cameras having like whatever the good settings

[Ian Landsman]: for streaming or even video
setup sometimes, since they're usually kind

[Ian Landsman]: of more photography focused
by default in their default settings. Sometimes

[Ian Landsman]: you have a few tweaks there
you need to do to get it set up for the video.

[Ian Landsman]: So. I like that.

[Aaron]: Yep, yep, and I think we'll end up
with a page that's like screencasting.com slash

[Aaron]: cameras. And it'll

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: be a whole listing of like the different
camera options and then in each section for

[Aaron]: like the Canon M50, which is what I'm
running. Then

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: we can have links out to all the profiles
of people that use the Canon M50. And then

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: we can have like a full super heavy
in terms of content page for screencasting

[Aaron]: cameras. And I think... Given the domain
and the fact that we can put a ton of content

[Aaron]: on there, I think we'll rank pretty
highly for screencasting cameras.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah, especially the camera,
I think, or even the mics too. I mean, I think

[Ian Landsman]: if you had a page for each of
the big camera systems and mic systems. And

[Ian Landsman]: then even just whether it's
you or something, you know, pay somebody to

[Ian Landsman]: go through and do the work of
like, either building these or even just finding

[Ian Landsman]: the good videos about on YouTube,
about how to set them up. Because like

[Aaron]: Hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: when I was setting up for this
new setup I have here, it's like, it took me

[Ian Landsman]: like four YouTube videos and
like

[Aaron]: Yep.

[Ian Landsman]: three hours for this particular
camera, which like Sony A7C. And

[Aaron]: Mm.

[Ian Landsman]: so like this, and this is actually
a really good camera potentially for streaming,

[Ian Landsman]: like. It's a video oriented
camera to some degree anyway, but it's like

[Ian Landsman]: even that didn't have like here
is how you would set this camera up for streaming

[Ian Landsman]: and the things you

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: should do. And like, so I think
just having that for, you know, because basically

[Ian Landsman]: if you do the Sony's and the
cannons, you don't have to do every

[Aaron]: Right.

[Ian Landsman]: single one even. But the big
ones, a lot of them are same across anyway,

[Ian Landsman]: it's like, you know, the menuing

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: system and everything's the
same across multiple cameras in the series.

[Ian Landsman]: So I think that'd be super useful.
And you get a lot of links for that because

[Ian Landsman]: it's actually pretty hard to
find that. there

[Aaron]: Pretty

[Ian Landsman]: tends to

[Aaron]: hard

[Ian Landsman]: be you're

[Aaron]: to find. So

[Ian Landsman]: kind of piecing

[Aaron]: you

[Ian Landsman]: it.

[Aaron]: just went through this. So like what
part was hard for you to find? Was it concise

[Aaron]: or comprehensive or what was

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah,

[Aaron]: the part

[Ian Landsman]: because

[Aaron]: that was missing?

[Ian Landsman]: you end up take there's there
was like nobody as I found anyway, at least

[Ian Landsman]: for this particular camera that
really went through and like how to set it

[Ian Landsman]: up, especially for the streaming,
which

[Aaron]: Got

[Ian Landsman]: might be a little

[Aaron]: it.

[Ian Landsman]: different than what you're doing.
But even for the video, there was just a lot

[Ian Landsman]: of like, here's some of the
settings. But then I knew other stuff. I mean,

[Ian Landsman]: I know a little bit about it,
which helped if I

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: started from less knowledge.
I think it would have been even worse. But.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah, just, and just even things
like how do you run the power to it? Like,

[Ian Landsman]: can you, should

[Aaron]: Hmm

[Ian Landsman]: you do HDMI out or a lot of
the cameras have USB-C, which can pipe over

[Ian Landsman]: it, but there's actually a difference.
and HDMI is probably better, but not necessarily

[Ian Landsman]: always. And so there's

[Aaron]: Hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: kind of things like that in
terms of the setup, physical setup of how you're

[Ian Landsman]: gonna power it and how you're
gonna get

[Aaron]: That's

[Ian Landsman]: the

[Aaron]: interesting.

[Ian Landsman]: feed out.

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: And then also then the Sony
system, all these camera systems, the menu

[Ian Landsman]: is a disaster. So, you know,
how do you find all the little spots where

[Ian Landsman]: you need to set it up for, whether
it's changes for the continuous power or changes

[Ian Landsman]: for like what setting that should
be on for video and all

[Aaron]: a

[Ian Landsman]: that

[Aaron]: great

[Ian Landsman]: stuff.

[Aaron]: idea.

[Ian Landsman]: So just to get that initial
setup so you have something reasonable.

[Aaron]: Right.

[Ian Landsman]: And you're not, you know, some
of them have overheating issues. Is there

[Aaron]: Right.

[Ian Landsman]: certain things you have to do?
Maybe you shouldn't run it at 1080P or whatever,

[Ian Landsman]: like whatever, all the different
things to be aware of for the particular camera.

[Ian Landsman]: So you, you know, your first
run experiences, aren't you get 20 minutes

[Ian Landsman]: in and it's shutting down and,

[Aaron]: Right, in

[Ian Landsman]: or

[Aaron]: the middle

[Ian Landsman]: you're

[Aaron]: of

[Ian Landsman]: not

[Aaron]: a

[Ian Landsman]: getting the video

[Aaron]: recording session,

[Ian Landsman]: or whatever.

[Aaron]: which is super

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: frustrating.

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: Ooh,

[Ian Landsman]: So

[Aaron]: this is

[Ian Landsman]: that

[Aaron]: a

[Ian Landsman]: could

[Aaron]: good

[Ian Landsman]: be cool.

[Aaron]: idea. This is a really good idea. I
think, so one of the things I'm thinking for

[Aaron]: like, continually filling the top of
the funnel, because I want this

[Ian Landsman]: Mm.

[Aaron]: course to last forever, you know,

[Ian Landsman]: Right, yeah,

[Aaron]: as

[Ian Landsman]: why not?

[Aaron]: forever as possible.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: I'm thinking I'll do a separate YouTube
channel that is just screencasting

[Ian Landsman]: Hmm

[Aaron]: focused.

[Ian Landsman]: that makes sense

[Aaron]: And... This could be a really good
couple of videos where I synthesize all of

[Aaron]: the information about, because people
are trying to teach you how to use the camera

[Aaron]: for everything,

[Ian Landsman]: Alright.

[Aaron]: and I could synthesize all of that
into, here's how you use it just for a webcam

[Aaron]: or a screencast

[Ian Landsman]: Right?

[Aaron]: basically.

[Ian Landsman]: Yup.

[Aaron]: That is really interesting, I like
that idea. The question is, am I gonna have

[Aaron]: to buy a bunch of cameras to do it
honestly, because I don't wanna do that.

[Ian Landsman]: Well, I

[Aaron]: Hmm

[Ian Landsman]: mean, there's a bunch of services
for renting cameras. So for like 20

[Aaron]: Duh.

[Ian Landsman]: bucks, 30 bucks or whatever,
you can just like rent the camera and the lens

[Ian Landsman]: for two days, do the video,
send it

[Aaron]: Of

[Ian Landsman]: back.

[Aaron]: course,

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: of course

[Ian Landsman]: I would just,

[Aaron]: Ian,

[Ian Landsman]: there

[Aaron]: this

[Ian Landsman]: you

[Aaron]: is

[Ian Landsman]: go.

[Aaron]: why we do this.

[Ian Landsman]: There

[Aaron]: We do

[Ian Landsman]: you

[Aaron]: this

[Ian Landsman]: go.

[Aaron]: podcast for my benefit. This is amazing.
Okay, yeah, that's obvious. Yep, what is it

[Aaron]: called? There's one that's like

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah, that's a big

[Aaron]: Glass

[Ian Landsman]: one.

[Aaron]: Rent or I'm thinking of Rent the Runway,
which is different.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: I'll look it up. That's fine.

[Ian Landsman]: It

[Aaron]: Great

[Ian Landsman]: should be

[Aaron]: idea,

[Ian Landsman]: easy to find. Yeah.

[Aaron]: okay.

[Ian Landsman]: I can't remember the names,
but I know a ton of people use them. Everybody

[Ian Landsman]: seems to have pretty good results

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: with it. So I think that you're
getting like pretty, you know,

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: good, good gear and good shape.
And it'll be fine for your purposes of getting

[Ian Landsman]: set

[Aaron]: Yeah,

[Ian Landsman]: up

[Aaron]: I

[Ian Landsman]: and

[Aaron]: don't

[Ian Landsman]: stream

[Aaron]: even want

[Ian Landsman]: it.

[Aaron]: to keep the gear, so it's

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: perfect. So, okay.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah. And you only need one
lens, probably, or whatever. So.

[Aaron]: Yeah. Okay, cool.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah,

[Aaron]: That'll

[Ian Landsman]: there

[Aaron]: be

[Ian Landsman]: you

[Aaron]: fun.

[Ian Landsman]: go. There's another project
for the list.

[Aaron]: Yeah, seriously. I count this as a
sub project, so mentally this doesn't

[Ian Landsman]: Doesn't

[Aaron]: take

[Ian Landsman]: weigh you

[Aaron]: a

[Ian Landsman]: down,

[Aaron]: slot. Yeah, exactly.

[Ian Landsman]: right? Ha ha ha.

[Aaron]: I don't feel like, oh man, I got a
million. No, I only have like four things to

[Aaron]: juggle, of which subtask A is record
a million videos. So.

[Ian Landsman]: Right? I have a hard time with
that. I get down that path. This is part of

[Ian Landsman]: the stuff I've been eliminating
from

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: decisions I made pre-vacation,

[Aaron]: Yep.

[Ian Landsman]: is it's just like I get too
much stuff going and I'm not as good at that.

[Ian Landsman]: I've never been that good at
it. If I get too many balls, then I just start

[Ian Landsman]: to get like, it just weighs
on me. And then I don't do even the things

[Ian Landsman]: I need to be doing. It's just
like, oh, it's too much stress and pressure.

[Ian Landsman]: So then I gotta go back through
and be like, no, don't actually need to do

[Ian Landsman]: those things right now. Like.
It'll

[Aaron]: Yep.

[Ian Landsman]: be fine. We can wait a few months
or six months, whatever. Put it on like a separate

[Ian Landsman]: notion page for like kind of
backlog of ideas. Just

[Aaron]: Parking

[Ian Landsman]: send

[Aaron]: lot,

[Ian Landsman]: it over

[Aaron]: yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: there. So it's not like in my
day to day vision. And then, uh, yeah,

[Aaron]: Yep,

[Ian Landsman]: I

[Aaron]: you

[Ian Landsman]: got it.

[Aaron]: are

[Ian Landsman]: Got to do

[Aaron]: super

[Ian Landsman]: that.

[Aaron]: not alone. I feel the same way. I feel
like I have like a natural kind of ebb and

[Aaron]: flow cycle almost of like expand, let's
do everything. And then I

[Ian Landsman]: Right?

[Aaron]: get to like the maximum expansion and
I'm like, oh,

[Ian Landsman]: I'm sorry.

[Aaron]: this is

[Ian Landsman]: Ha

[Aaron]: too

[Ian Landsman]: ha

[Aaron]: much.

[Ian Landsman]: ha.

[Aaron]: And then I contract down and focus
on the few things that I think are most important

[Aaron]: maybe or most pressing. And

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: then that kind of just kind of ebbs
and flows over time. And I don't know if that's

[Aaron]: bad. Like I don't know if that's bad.

[Ian Landsman]: I don't know.

[Aaron]: I maybe wish I didn't get to the point
where it was like, ah, this is way too

[Ian Landsman]: It's

[Aaron]: much,

[Ian Landsman]: overwhelming.

[Aaron]: I'm gonna die, yeah. Which is

[Ian Landsman]: I do think

[Aaron]: where I am now, so.

[Ian Landsman]: there is this entrepreneurial,
I think a lot of entrepreneurs have that. issue

[Ian Landsman]: and it's like you get that little
bit of space like you actually get some space

[Ian Landsman]: and you're like I must

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: fill this space like I must
there's more things to do let's pile stuff

[Ian Landsman]: into the gap and then all of
a sudden you look around a week later you're

[Ian Landsman]: like oh I actually have tons
of stuff to do and then the thing you know

[Ian Landsman]: you have no capacity for like
when someone comes out of the blue and wants

[Ian Landsman]: to charge you two thousand dollars
for a photo

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: you used 20 years ago or like
all these you know random stuff that comes

[Ian Landsman]: up when you're running

[Ian Landsman]: even just your day job needs
you to work longer or whatever, like who knows,

[Ian Landsman]: like just having the extra capacity
to take on those unknown things. Yeah, I hit

[Ian Landsman]: that all the time where I'm
like running too close to the capacity and

[Ian Landsman]: then like something

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: happens and I'm like, oh no,
I got to deal with that and rework

[Aaron]: And then you start

[Ian Landsman]: things.

[Aaron]: actively

[Ian Landsman]: So,

[Aaron]: trying to like shed projects. You're
like,

[Ian Landsman]: right,

[Aaron]: ah, I can't do that.

[Ian Landsman]: right.

[Aaron]: I mean, Hugo designed my website, I
think back in like September or October of

[Ian Landsman]: Mmm.

[Aaron]: last year, and it's now September

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: of this year. And it was just one of
those things where at the time, I was like,

[Aaron]: yeah, hell yeah, let's freaking, let's
do a website, that seems awesome. And then

[Ian Landsman]: Right?

[Aaron]: he designed it and I was like, oh gosh,
I don't

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: have time

[Ian Landsman]: Now I have

[Aaron]: to

[Ian Landsman]: to

[Aaron]: do

[Ian Landsman]: build

[Aaron]: this.

[Ian Landsman]: this.

[Aaron]: I can't do this anymore. That's one
thing where I think I do get in trouble sometimes

[Aaron]: is I'll have like, I'll start the project
and have

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: like other people, you know, pay them,
of course, but have other people

[Ian Landsman]: Right. Yup.

[Aaron]: do parts of it. And then I'm like,
Oh no, now it's back to me. And so,

[Ian Landsman]: Yup.

[Aaron]: you know, hopefully, hopefully Hugo's
happy one to see his design out there. And

[Aaron]: two, of course I did pay him for it.
But now I'm finally like, all right, here we

[Aaron]: go. This is now it's come back around
to I have time to do this.

[Ian Landsman]: The number of people and the
amount of money I've paid for people to not

[Ian Landsman]: do the things I asked them to
do is

[Aaron]: Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe

[Ian Landsman]: completely insane. Um, yes,
I know I paid you. I'm- I'm fine with you not

[Ian Landsman]: doing it, just forget it. Like
just the, what you were gonna do and then place

[Ian Landsman]: on me. Like I'm fine just paying
you to not just take that

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: money, enjoy it. I don't even
want you to produce it. And I

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: just want to not worry about
it. So yeah, I do have had that happen numerous

[Ian Landsman]: times. So.

[Aaron]: Yeah, and it's kinda like, if they
do produce the thing, it's like, yes, I'm thrilled

[Aaron]: to death with the work you've done.
It's amazing, I

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: love it. I just, I'm gonna sit on it
for a little

[Ian Landsman]: Right?

[Aaron]: while. Sorry about that. Ha, ha, ha.

[Ian Landsman]: So

[Aaron]: But.

[Ian Landsman]: we should get the full update.
What's up with the hello query? I don't think

[Ian Landsman]: we've even talked about that
on

[Aaron]: We

[Ian Landsman]: this

[Aaron]: have

[Ian Landsman]: pod

[Aaron]: not talked

[Ian Landsman]: much,

[Aaron]: about

[Ian Landsman]: so.

[Aaron]: that in a while. So we've been doing
a push with, do you know Boris Lepkin in the

[Ian Landsman]: Hmm,

[Aaron]: Laravel community? He's the guy who
wrote

[Ian Landsman]: I

[Aaron]: Advanced

[Ian Landsman]: don't think so.

[Aaron]: Inertia.

[Ian Landsman]: Okay, yes, I know that.

[Aaron]: So he's the inertia type script.

[Ian Landsman]: Mm-hmm.

[Aaron]: He's a wizard. Like I thought for a
long time that I was a really good developer

[Aaron]: and I think I am. I'm

[Ian Landsman]: Right?

[Aaron]: not as good as Boris. Like

[Ian Landsman]: No, right?

[Aaron]: Boris is a gosh dang machine.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: And it also happens that he's like
really, really good at the front end. Um,

[Ian Landsman]: Mm.

[Aaron]: and I'm, I'm okay at front end, but
in terms of like, all right, let's wire up

[Aaron]: inertia and view all together with
typed stuff on the backend, like I don't, I

[Aaron]: don't hold a candle to Boris.

[Ian Landsman]: Alright.

[Aaron]: So anyway, we've hired Boris to help
us build out some of that stuff. Um,

[Ian Landsman]: Awesome

[Aaron]: because like I said, I got to this
point where I was like, Oh, this is too much.

[Aaron]: Um,

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: And we were just moving too slowly
because I just, I was also having a hard time.

[Aaron]: Like the project's been going on for
a thousand years,

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: um, and losing some of that motivation
for that side. And so

[Ian Landsman]: Mm-hmm

[Aaron]: bringing Boris on to like, just plow
through some tasks has been really awesome.

[Aaron]: So that's been going well. We're reaching
the point where it's like, all right, let's,

[Aaron]: let's onboard some customers here.

[Ian Landsman]: Oh

[Aaron]: And

[Ian Landsman]: wow.

[Aaron]: so. Yeah, Colleen and I are talking
about like, okay, we're about to approach the

[Aaron]: starting line of this project. Like,
even

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: though it feels like this should be
the finish line, we're approaching the starting

[Aaron]: line. Let's talk about like what that's
going to look like going forward.

[Ian Landsman]: Yo.

[Aaron]: And so there's still some, you know,
there's still some decisions and stuff to be

[Aaron]: made there. But just having someone
else that's really, really talented help me

[Aaron]: on the development side has been like
a huge boost in terms of like, like emotional

[Aaron]: fortitude to

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: have somebody else picking up some
of that slack. So that's been great. So thanks,

[Aaron]: Boris. Thanks.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: Thanks for being thanks for being a
10x developer. That's amazing.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah,

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: I think there's getting to shipping
is so important. And like, that's something

[Ian Landsman]: I haven't always factored enough
in. And actually with a huge new project that

[Ian Landsman]: we'll talk about on here eventually.
Um, I've been reworking a lot of that so that

[Ian Landsman]: to try to get to that shipping
part faster,

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: um, and, uh, Yeah. So I think,
uh, I think that's super important. Like six,

[Ian Landsman]: when you're just on that march
of like the

[Aaron]: Brutal.

[Ian Landsman]: never ending marches, it is
very difficult to stay motivated and even

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: to remember what you were trying
to do at

[Aaron]: Yep,

[Ian Landsman]: times and

[Aaron]: yep,

[Ian Landsman]: things like that.

[Aaron]: yep.

[Ian Landsman]: And so I think having that,
um, yeah, whether it's help or just reorganizing,

[Ian Landsman]: I think there's actually a Jason
Cohen has a really, uh, interesting blog post

[Ian Landsman]: about this where. kind of indirectly
about this, but he was more talking about like

[Ian Landsman]: MVPs and how he doesn't like
MVPs.

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: But more about the idea than
doing something where it's just smaller but

[Ian Landsman]: complete so that

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: like even if you then don't
add on to whatever or even if it takes longer

[Ian Landsman]: than to get to the full vision,
it's not that you're shipping this kind of

[Ian Landsman]: junky doesn't even work for
the customer tool. It's just that you're shipping

[Ian Landsman]: something that is small but
that there is a use set and people could love

[Ian Landsman]: that small feature set and then
you can either build on

[Aaron]: iterate

[Ian Landsman]: it or

[Aaron]: off

[Ian Landsman]: not

[Aaron]: of

[Ian Landsman]: build

[Aaron]: that,

[Ian Landsman]: on

[Aaron]: yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: it, but that different take
on it, which I kind of like that idea of it

[Ian Landsman]: as well.

[Aaron]: Yeah, yeah, and I feel like there is,
there is like a big emotional win from having

[Aaron]: that in people's hands. So that you
can start to get that like, that, you know,

[Aaron]: that dopamine from people actually
using the thing instead

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: of just sitting quietly alone working
on

[Ian Landsman]: some

[Aaron]: it all the time.

[Ian Landsman]: money changing hands and all
that

[Aaron]: Yeah,

[Ian Landsman]: stuff.

[Aaron]: exactly.

[Ian Landsman]: It's

[Aaron]: So

[Ian Landsman]: always.

[Aaron]: when you mentioned it in passing, you
had a big secret project we're going to talk

[Aaron]: about at some point.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah, we'll talk about the big
secret project

[Aaron]: Alright,

[Ian Landsman]: at some point.

[Aaron]: I

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah,

[Aaron]: love it. Okay,

[Ian Landsman]: we're not there

[Aaron]: so

[Ian Landsman]: yet.

[Aaron]: y'all stay

[Ian Landsman]: We're not

[Aaron]: tuned,

[Ian Landsman]: there yet.

[Aaron]: come back. Come back

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: next week and we'll probably not talk
about it then, but keep coming

[Ian Landsman]: We're

[Aaron]: back

[Ian Landsman]: not being

[Aaron]: and

[Ian Landsman]: next

[Aaron]: maybe

[Ian Landsman]: week, but

[Aaron]: eventually we will

[Ian Landsman]: eventually,

[Aaron]: talk about it.

[Ian Landsman]: eventually we'll get to it.
We're definitely gonna talk about it, but not

[Ian Landsman]: yet.

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: We have lots of other stuff
to talk about though.

[Aaron]: Let's

[Ian Landsman]: So

[Aaron]: do

[Ian Landsman]: it's

[Aaron]: it.

[Ian Landsman]: no worries. What else we got
here? So... All right, so what about, well,

[Ian Landsman]: all right, we can talk about
this. So I posted about year of Livewire. What

[Ian Landsman]: do you think

[Aaron]: You

[Ian Landsman]: about

[Aaron]: did.

[Ian Landsman]: that? I think 2024 is the year
of Livewire, is the year of filament, is the

[Ian Landsman]: year of the Livewire ecosystem.
To

[Aaron]: Okay,

[Ian Landsman]: me, this

[Aaron]: so

[Ian Landsman]: is gonna be a big Livewire

[Aaron]: before

[Ian Landsman]: year.

[Aaron]: I tell

[Ian Landsman]: All

[Aaron]: you any thoughts, tell me

[Ian Landsman]: right.

[Aaron]: what you were doing and what kind of
prompted the Year of Livewire tweet.

[Ian Landsman]: Well, I've just been super deep
in LiveWire again. Um, so sort of a long story,

[Ian Landsman]: but the short version is I plan
to do a bunch of stuff with LiveWire three

[Ian Landsman]: last year when it was, you

[Aaron]: Okay. Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: know, sort of supposed to come
out and actually, you know, did some sponsoring

[Ian Landsman]: to help do some of that. Whatever.
It just took longer as these software projects

[Ian Landsman]: do whatever. So it's fun. So
that's this is where I kind of then got over

[Ian Landsman]: towards into the React and all
that, which we've touched on a

[Aaron]: Mmm.

[Ian Landsman]: little bit here. I was like,
well, I never looked at inertia. Never looked

[Ian Landsman]: at React. Let me go off in that
direction for a bit. So I went over there,

[Ian Landsman]: learned React, played with inertia
and all that stuff. So then LiveWire 3 comes

[Ian Landsman]: out and. Filament comes out
and there's a bunch of other, you know, projects

[Ian Landsman]: all along the ecosystem. The
Spatty stuff's all being updated to LiveWire

[Ian Landsman]: 3. I know the Laravel Core stuff
that uses LiveWire has been updated or will

[Ian Landsman]: be updated

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm

[Ian Landsman]: soon. So I've been back in LiveWire
3 streets. I'm like, all right, let me get

[Ian Landsman]: in here since this was kind
of my original plan. And we use LiveWire for

[Ian Landsman]: other stuff anyways. So Lara
Jobs uses it and the store thing that's launching

[Ian Landsman]: today for Help Spot uses it
and

[Aaron]: Nice.

[Ian Landsman]: whatever. So we use LiveWire
a bunch of places, but. And I just love it.

[Ian Landsman]: I'm not even like super, super
deep on it yet, but I've been loving all the

[Ian Landsman]: changes. I just think it's like
so obviously like the foundation to then build

[Ian Landsman]: on for world domination. And

[Aaron]: Oh wow.

[Ian Landsman]: so yeah, I'm all about the world
domination. And

[Aaron]: Yeah, me too.

[Ian Landsman]: I just think this is like, it's
so integrated with Laravel in the way that

[Ian Landsman]: none of the other things can
ever be, right? And so, yeah, it's just great.

[Ian Landsman]: And I think what the film in...
guys are doing is great and how they've expanded

[Ian Landsman]: that to where you can build.
It's not just like an admin panel anymore.

[Ian Landsman]: It's, you know, got bigger ambitions
than that. And you can really use it to build

[Ian Landsman]: other sorts of apps and things.
Um, and I mean, filament sort of a little bit

[Ian Landsman]: intense, uh, and, and

[Aaron]: Yeah,

[Ian Landsman]: heavy

[Aaron]: so

[Ian Landsman]: to get started

[Aaron]: talk

[Ian Landsman]: with,

[Aaron]: to me about

[Ian Landsman]: but.

[Aaron]: Filament. Cause I thought it was an
admin panel, but now I'm seeing people like

[Aaron]: you say, it's like application builders.
So like,

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: what is the scope? What is the scope
there?

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah, I mean, the scope is kind
of massive. So I mean, it's definitely where

[Ian Landsman]: you could use it now for, and
maybe you always could to some degree, but

[Ian Landsman]: I think it's been fleshed out
a bit more where it's not just like admin for

[Ian Landsman]: the, like the literal admins
of the

[Aaron]: Uh huh.

[Ian Landsman]: system to manage a SaaS app,
but you could definitely use it whether, it's

[Ian Landsman]: gonna be a little hard to explain,
but they have this kind of a panel, which is

[Ian Landsman]: sort of like an admin dashboard,
but you could use it for actually the UI of

[Ian Landsman]: your app now with what

[Aaron]: interesting.

[Ian Landsman]: they've done with it. or part
of the UI, like maybe you have like, you know,

[Ian Landsman]: like a user area, but then there
might be other areas that don't necessarily

[Ian Landsman]: use filament for like the front,
let's say that maybe is

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: more custom or things like that.
So you could mix and match. You could also

[Ian Landsman]: just use the individual components
like the table builder. Like I just saw like

[Ian Landsman]: Spatty's using the table builder

[Aaron]: Yeah, I've

[Ian Landsman]: in

[Aaron]: seen the table builder.

[Ian Landsman]: the media library, I think.
Yeah, and the form builder and things like

[Ian Landsman]: that.

[Aaron]: Uh huh.

[Ian Landsman]: So. And, you know, it's basically
the missing component library of the Laravel

[Ian Landsman]: LiveWire kind of

[Aaron]: I see.

[Ian Landsman]: ecosystem, in terms of if you
want the like fully integrated components.

[Ian Landsman]: Now, I still don't think they're
all the way, and they're definitely not all

[Ian Landsman]: the way, to sort of the full-on
polishness of like the React ecosystem.

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: But I do think it's gotten a
lot closer and is a lot better. And then you're

[Ian Landsman]: making different trade-offs.
Maybe it's not quite as uber polished as that

[Ian Landsman]: in areas, but then on the flip
side, it's super tied into Laravel and

[Aaron]: Right? Hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: it understands Laravel. And
you can just totally ignore a whole bunch of

[Ian Landsman]: annoying kind of API validation,

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: all that stuff, networking communication
type things because it all just magically works.

[Ian Landsman]: So... Yeah, so I don't know,

[Aaron]: So

[Ian Landsman]: I think,

[Aaron]: are you using

[Ian Landsman]: hmm.

[Aaron]: filament for anything at this point?

[Ian Landsman]: So I'm not, well, we use actually
one of the components like the table builder

[Ian Landsman]: in the new

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: store. But I am evaluating for
a super big secret project, possibly using

[Ian Landsman]: it pretty heavily. So

[Aaron]: Okay.

[Ian Landsman]: yeah, so that's what I've been
kind of digging into that stuff. But yeah,

[Ian Landsman]: I just think it's like all reaches
place. I think it's all gonna get a lot better

[Ian Landsman]: too. Like they're coming out
with like, like Filman's the lead designer,

[Ian Landsman]: I think he is at Filman is coming

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: out with like a theme package
so that you can have some different styles

[Ian Landsman]: in there. If you want something
like a little cleaner than the default, things

[Ian Landsman]: like that.

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: And yeah, there's just a lot
of activity on the LiveWire end and the Filman

[Ian Landsman]: end with people, you know, doing
a lot of active dev work around it. So

[Aaron]: It does

[Ian Landsman]: I expect

[Aaron]: seem to

[Ian Landsman]: everything

[Aaron]: be

[Ian Landsman]: to

[Aaron]: a

[Ian Landsman]: get a lot

[Aaron]: very

[Ian Landsman]: better.

[Aaron]: active project.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah,

[Aaron]: It seems

[Ian Landsman]: yeah,

[Aaron]: like

[Ian Landsman]: film

[Aaron]: there are

[Ian Landsman]: is

[Aaron]: a lot

[Ian Landsman]: very

[Aaron]: of

[Ian Landsman]: active.

[Aaron]: people working on it and there's a
lot of motion on it and a lot of people are

[Aaron]: like contributing to it. Is there a
paid component? How do these people make money?

[Ian Landsman]: Uh, filament, I don't believe
has a directly paid component. No, um, you

[Ian Landsman]: can sponsor Dan

[Aaron]: Got

[Ian Landsman]: who

[Aaron]: it.

[Ian Landsman]: kind of runs it. Um, and

[Aaron]: Oh,

[Ian Landsman]: same

[Aaron]: and Dan

[Ian Landsman]: with lot.

[Aaron]: is working for a company, right?

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah, I think he works for Kershbaum.
Um,

[Aaron]: Yeah, and he

[Ian Landsman]: so

[Aaron]: works

[Ian Landsman]: I think he's like

[Aaron]: on

[Ian Landsman]: semi sponsored

[Aaron]: film. Yeah,

[Ian Landsman]: in that way. I don't

[Aaron]: okay.

[Ian Landsman]: know exactly the exact deal
there, but I do think they do give him at least

[Ian Landsman]: some time to work on it is my
impression. Um, And then, you know, Caleb has

[Ian Landsman]: the kind of Livewire, the Alpine
components, I

[Aaron]: Right,

[Ian Landsman]: know he sells,

[Aaron]: yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: and he has a lot of GitHub sponsors,
although

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: GitHub has kind of messed that
up a little bit

[Aaron]: They have,

[Ian Landsman]: on the

[Aaron]: yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: sponsorship front. But and Livewire
also has a paid support channel now, too, if

[Ian Landsman]: you want

[Aaron]: That's

[Ian Landsman]: to get

[Aaron]: right.

[Ian Landsman]: paid support for like if you
have a big Livewire project and want to be

[Ian Landsman]: able to have kind of direct
access to the core brain trust, then you can.

[Ian Landsman]: can pay

[Aaron]: That's

[Ian Landsman]: them

[Aaron]: right.

[Ian Landsman]: for that, which is a great program
too. So yeah, I mean, all these things, I think,

[Ian Landsman]: it's like every open source
project, it's like how do you

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: monetize it to kind

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: of survive and pay the bills
so

[Aaron]: Tough,

[Ian Landsman]: you can build

[Aaron]: tough question.

[Ian Landsman]: the open source thing people
want. But.

[Aaron]: Okay, so Livewire 3 plus ecosystem
plus tight integration with Laravel. That's

[Aaron]: why you think 2024 is the year of Livewire.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah, I just think with this
new foundation, so there's always been a little

[Ian Landsman]: bit of rough edges to LiveWire

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: when you get in there and build
something more complicated where there can

[Ian Landsman]: be just more difficult error
states or a lot of subtle things you have to

[Ian Landsman]: be aware of

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: to make that work. And so...
I think that was always a little bit tricky.

[Ian Landsman]: Over for pages with lots of
components, there'd be like a lot

[Aaron]: Right?

[Ian Landsman]: of network stuff going on and
things like that. And a lot of that stuff is,

[Ian Landsman]: I mean, almost all of it really
has been, you know, made a lot better fixed

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: if it was like kind of more
bugs or more sensible defaults or optimized

[Ian Landsman]: in terms of like the networking.
So like the foundation is super strong. And

[Ian Landsman]: I think... with filament on
top, then you just have this nice way to actually

[Ian Landsman]: get started with,

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: bam, I can like build out an
idea really quickly, which I know has always

[Ian Landsman]: been also kind of one of Taylor's
core tenants, so to speak,

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: with Laravel is like, can you
get to building something, you know, pretty

[Ian Landsman]: quickly, which why Laravel always
does such a great job with, you know, the other

[Ian Landsman]: elements of like. Uh, you know,
authentication and having all those jet stream

[Ian Landsman]: and all those things to make
it really easy to just get all that boiler

[Ian Landsman]: plate stuff that is terrible
to build kind of out of the way right at the

[Ian Landsman]: beginning and Laravel just can
give you that. So, so yeah, I don't know. I

[Ian Landsman]: just think, uh, you know, you
know, I now having just gone through all the

[Ian Landsman]: react stuff too, it's like,
you know, even with inertia. It's still, you

[Ian Landsman]: know, it's still JavaScript,
right?

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: Like

[Aaron]: Yeah,

[Ian Landsman]: ultimately,

[Aaron]: got him. Got him. Welcome

[Ian Landsman]: it's

[Aaron]: home,

[Ian Landsman]: still JavaScript.

[Aaron]: baby.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah, I'm

[Aaron]: You're

[Ian Landsman]: back

[Aaron]: back.

[Ian Landsman]: home.

[Aaron]: Woo.

[Ian Landsman]: So.

[Aaron]: It's still JavaScript.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah, it's still JavaScript.
And it's like, if you don't have to be in there

[Ian Landsman]: or if something can make it
nice for you so that you're in there but you

[Ian Landsman]: don't have to really know too
much about it except for when you really need

[Ian Landsman]: to. And then LiveWire does a
great job with that. It's all integrated with

[Ian Landsman]: Alpine like fully now. So it
used to be the sort of like they weren't actually

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: one in the same but now it's
essentially like they're one in the same. And

[Ian Landsman]: so you can use Alpine, which
I like a lot and they can cross communicate

[Ian Landsman]: really easily where you need
to. for those times we do need to do something

[Ian Landsman]: JavaScripty that's literally
only in the browser, then great, like you can

[Ian Landsman]: do those weirdo JavaScripty
things

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: and sync it up with LiveWire
if you need to and have that all work magically.

[Ian Landsman]: So yeah,

[Aaron]: I buy it. I buy

[Ian Landsman]: there

[Aaron]: it. I'm with

[Ian Landsman]: you

[Aaron]: you.

[Ian Landsman]: go.

[Aaron]: So I think I think Livewire 3 is like
a step change, like a fundamental

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: improvement over Livewire 2. Just I
was never a heavy Livewire user and I'm still

[Aaron]: not actually. But I have used Livewire
2 and I've used Livewire 3 and I do think all

[Aaron]: of the time and energy that Caleb put
into Livewire 3 was worth it because

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah,

[Aaron]: I think

[Ian Landsman]: totally

[Aaron]: I think

[Ian Landsman]: agree.

[Aaron]: a lot of a lot of the like I feel like
a lot of the drive-by criticisms of LiveWire

[Aaron]: 2 was around performance and requests
and that kind of stuff.

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: And I feel like Caleb went to the nth
degree trying to solve some of the batching

[Aaron]: and like you said, tight integration
with Alpine. So you can do some stuff that

[Aaron]: is strictly front end, but is still
fully integrated to LiveWire such that when

[Aaron]: you do send a request, like it all
goes together.

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: And so I think I think my point of
view on LiveWire is, I actually don't mind

[Aaron]: writing JavaScript that much because
I write view and not react. Little barb to

[Aaron]: react

[Ian Landsman]: I'm

[Aaron]: there.

[Ian Landsman]: not going to view

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: that for sure,

[Aaron]: Okay.

[Ian Landsman]: but we're not talking about
that again.

[Aaron]: Yeah. But what I do love about LiveWire
is just the network chasm has been crossed

[Aaron]: and you don't have to worry about,
I think you mentioned like APIs and validation

[Aaron]: at some point. Like it's just all,
it's just all there. Like the front

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: end and back end. is handled, like
the communication between the two is handled

[Aaron]: for you. And that is just, it's just
a delight to use to not think about like, all

[Aaron]: right, how am I going to serialize
this and send it across the wire and validate

[Aaron]: it and send some response back and
respond to it. Like Jason wired up my new website

[Aaron]: and there's like a listing of content
and you can filter between like videos and

[Aaron]: articles and talks and that kind of
thing. And he did it all in LiveWire

[Aaron]: Is that the single page one

[Ian Landsman]: Yep.

[Aaron]: or is Volt the single page one? Which
one's the page router?

[Ian Landsman]: Mm-hmm. Well, the Volt is the
single page live wire component

[Aaron]: Yes,

[Ian Landsman]: and then, yeah.

[Aaron]: Folio's the page routing. Okay,

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: so he did it all with volt style LiveWire.

[Ian Landsman]: Mm-hmm.

[Aaron]: And so you just open up this content
list.blade.php and like you

[Ian Landsman]: Alright.

[Aaron]: see a little bit of LiveWire at the
top and then the view or the template at the

[Aaron]: bottom. It's like, oh,

[Ian Landsman]: there.

[Aaron]: I get this.

[Ian Landsman]: Right. Ha ha ha.

[Aaron]: This has like collapsed a level of
mental complexity in my mind

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: and I really dig it. So I do think,
I do think. ecosystem is developing. I think

[Aaron]: all the work that Filament is doing
is great. I think also Filo, everything that

[Aaron]: Filo touches

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah,

[Aaron]: in

[Ian Landsman]: I feel

[Aaron]: the Livewire

[Ian Landsman]: that.

[Aaron]: ecosystem is incredibly high quality
and he's got, I don't know all of his projects,

[Aaron]: but he's got a lot of stuff going on
over there. But I could see it. I could see

[Aaron]: 2024 being the year of Livewire and
hopefully with like the... the PHP resurgence

[Aaron]: and me trying to convince people that
PHP

[Ian Landsman]: Yes,

[Aaron]: is good.

[Ian Landsman]: get

[Aaron]: Hopefully

[Ian Landsman]: them over to team effort.

[Aaron]: we get some momentum going here.

[Ian Landsman]: Well, the other thing too, I
think that's huge for LiveWire is this sort

[Ian Landsman]: of, that it's been fully brought
into the fold under the Laravel domain. So

[Ian Landsman]: it's like livewire.laravel.com.
So that's always the other thing is like, you

[Ian Landsman]: know, you can drop LiveWire
in for sure and just like use it here and there,

[Ian Landsman]: but also it's. You know, I think
ideally in some ways like you'd be, especially

[Ian Landsman]: in three, where there's like
kind of the single page mode where it can

[Aaron]: Yeah,

[Ian Landsman]: really

[Aaron]: which

[Ian Landsman]: be preloading things

[Aaron]: is super

[Ian Landsman]: and like,

[Aaron]: cool.

[Ian Landsman]: so you can just have it be everything
basically. But that's a huge commitment. And

[Ian Landsman]: obviously everybody's always
scared about like, well, this is like kind

[Ian Landsman]: of a thing. It's run by, you
know, one

[Aaron]: You

[Ian Landsman]: or

[Aaron]: all right?

[Ian Landsman]: two people. Like, do I want
to have my entire app built on this thing?

[Ian Landsman]: And so, you know, being in the
official Laravel fold just has that extra level

[Ian Landsman]: of assurance that, you know
what, like the Laravel in-crew is going to

[Ian Landsman]: take care of this project, like
no matter what LiveWire is here to stay and

[Ian Landsman]: it's going to get better and
it's going to be either even more. integrated

[Ian Landsman]: into Laravel core in the future
in different ways. And so, and same with volt

[Ian Landsman]: being released by Laravel Inc.
So you have that support there. So it's just

[Ian Landsman]: like everything's coming. Everybody's
on board with LiveWire that this is how. This

[Ian Landsman]: is like the default way to me
to write a Laravel app. It's like.

[Aaron]: Woo,

[Ian Landsman]: it's

[Aaron]: that's

[Ian Landsman]: LiveWire.

[Aaron]: spicy.

[Ian Landsman]: And then like then there's,
you know, obviously there's other reasons why

[Ian Landsman]: you might use

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: ReactorView or just Blade in
a super simple scenario, whatever, but kind

[Ian Landsman]: of your main line, I'm building
a real app that's significant in size. I feel

[Ian Landsman]: like LiveWire is the front end
technology you're looking at for that on Laravel.

[Ian Landsman]: And that's what kind of where
things are going in my mind. So anyway, so

[Ian Landsman]: I think all of that kind of
comes together to be the year of LiveWire.

[Ian Landsman]: So

[Aaron]: I

[Ian Landsman]: we'll

[Aaron]: like

[Ian Landsman]: see, yeah.

[Aaron]: it. You want to hear my spicy take
on the

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: sub domain sub domain thing?

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah, sub the main

[Aaron]: I

[Ian Landsman]: thing.

[Aaron]: want there to be inertia.laravelle.com
too. And I

[Ian Landsman]: Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Aaron]: know I know that inertia is like all
things to all people. A little Bible reference

[Aaron]: there. But I know

[Ian Landsman]: Right?

[Aaron]: that inertia has all these different
frameworks.

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: I want I want it to be first party

[Ian Landsman]: to be

[Aaron]: Laravel.

[Ian Landsman]: in the fold,

[Aaron]: Yes,

[Ian Landsman]: yeah.

[Aaron]: I want it to be in the fold, fully
adopted. And I know that it's like feature

[Aaron]: complete or whatever, but I just want
it to be more specific to Laravel and maybe

[Aaron]: like, sure, continue on with the other
frameworks, you know, bless their hearts. But

[Aaron]: like, I want it to be more specific
to Laravel.

[Ian Landsman]: Well, this is a very interesting
point because this is actually, um, one of

[Ian Landsman]: the things I hit with inertia
and now it's been like two months, so I don't

[Ian Landsman]: even remember the exact details,
but basically

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: I hit a thing where like, I
thought it should be doing something a little

[Ian Landsman]: bit differently and I wish I
could remember the details, but I literally

[Ian Landsman]: don't even remember the details,

[Aaron]: This is

[Ian Landsman]: but

[Aaron]: gonna be a good one. This is gonna
be

[Ian Landsman]: yeah,

[Aaron]: good content. Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: but, but that's not really the
point. The point is that like, that it's like,

[Ian Landsman]: everybody's like, yeah, it's
done. It's featured complete. And I'm like,

[Ian Landsman]: well, but like. here's the

[Aaron]: I know.

[Ian Landsman]: thing of how it's handling something
like across the wire that like, I feel like

[Ian Landsman]: it should be doing a little
bit differently. That would be easier to then

[Ian Landsman]: manage. I believe it was like

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: on the Laravel side, it could
be doing something a little differently to

[Ian Landsman]: be better. And everybody's like,
no, it's feature complete. And I'm like, I

[Ian Landsman]: kind of get where they're coming
from. That's like,

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: well, like, yes, like maybe
like literally the wire. protocol

[Aaron]: Protocol,

[Ian Landsman]: of it is

[Aaron]: yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: feature complete, but I feel
like there's these other maybe rough edges

[Ian Landsman]: and I'm poking around, other
people seem to have the same rough edges

[Aaron]: Yep.

[Ian Landsman]: and things. And I'm like, I
don't know, like then I do, I wanna be on the

[Ian Landsman]: thing that's like feature complete.
Like what's, where is this software that's

[Ian Landsman]: done? Like I'm dying to find
the done software. I've

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: never had done software ever.
I feel like that's not really a thing. And

[Ian Landsman]: so that it's done feels a little
anti-me, whereas like LiveWire is like, okay,

[Ian Landsman]: there's all this activity. I
know

[Aaron]: Yep,

[Ian Landsman]: Caleb's

[Aaron]: yep,

[Ian Landsman]: super

[Aaron]: yep.

[Ian Landsman]: building it out. And it's like,
the thing that's moving forward and is not

[Ian Landsman]: feature complete since I don't
know what that means in software exactly

[Aaron]: I know.

[Ian Landsman]: really so anyway that's kind
of where I'm at so I agree like I would love

[Ian Landsman]: it to see I think whether I'm
using it or not it would be awesome if it was

[Ian Landsman]: Sort of fully, I think it has
been like sort of mostly adopted, but yeah,

[Aaron]: I

[Ian Landsman]: it's

[Aaron]: think

[Ian Landsman]: definitely

[Aaron]: it has,

[Ian Landsman]: not official

[Aaron]: yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: official. And so, and I don't
know if Taylor's inclined to like put a bunch

[Ian Landsman]: of work into it and things like
that, especially since it isn't like just a

[Ian Landsman]: Laravel thing. It's sort of

[Aaron]: Right?

[Ian Landsman]: has to then maintain the Ruby
version and I think

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: there's whatever other random
frameworks it supports. So

[Aaron]: Yeah, there's all kinds.

[Ian Landsman]: yeah.

[Aaron]: I wonder if there's an opportunity
for someone with good taste to like build on

[Aaron]: top of inertia that is Laravel specific.

[Ian Landsman]: I think there is a project where
someone forked it and was doing a lot of the

[Ian Landsman]: stuff

[Aaron]: Yeah,

[Ian Landsman]: that

[Aaron]: I remember

[Ian Landsman]: people have

[Aaron]: that.

[Ian Landsman]: been kind of complaining about,
but I don't know where

[Aaron]: I don't

[Ian Landsman]: that

[Aaron]: think it went

[Ian Landsman]: stands.

[Aaron]: very far.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah, so that's the thing. It's
like to get that momentum is so hard in open

[Ian Landsman]: source to,

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: like you can fork anything obviously,
but can you then like build up the crew around

[Aaron]: Yeah,

[Ian Landsman]: it who

[Aaron]: exactly.

[Ian Landsman]: are interested in participating
in it

[Aaron]: Oh,

[Ian Landsman]: is

[Aaron]: you know

[Ian Landsman]: much

[Aaron]: who should

[Ian Landsman]: harder.

[Aaron]: do this is Boris. Genius,

[Ian Landsman]: There you go.

[Aaron]: genius

[Ian Landsman]: More work

[Aaron]: machine

[Ian Landsman]: for Boris.

[Aaron]: Boris. Yeah,

[Ian Landsman]: Maybe

[Aaron]: Boris,

[Ian Landsman]: Hello

[Aaron]: if

[Ian Landsman]: Query

[Aaron]: you're listening,

[Ian Landsman]: takes

[Aaron]: you

[Ian Landsman]: it over.

[Aaron]: should do this. Yeah,

[Ian Landsman]: There you go.

[Aaron]: yeah, we should definitely take on
more. That's a good idea. Okay, Year of LiveWire,

[Aaron]: I buy it. Good,

[Ian Landsman]: Alright.

[Aaron]: good, good segment there. I think I
wanna talk about LinkedIn.

[Ian Landsman]: Oh, going from the new school
to the old school.

[Aaron]: Not terrible, like actually

[Ian Landsman]: Question

[Aaron]: kinda

[Ian Landsman]: mark?

[Aaron]: good, yeah. Um, okay,

[Ian Landsman]: Well,

[Aaron]: so

[Ian Landsman]: good is far, but let's hear
your take on it.

[Aaron]: here's... I said not terrible. Yeah,
I maybe wrote down good, but I said not terrible.

[Aaron]: So historically, here's what I've thought
about LinkedIn. LinkedIn

[Ian Landsman]: Right?

[Aaron]: is a place where you go to tell made-up
inspiring stories about how wonderful you are,

[Aaron]: right? So like,

[Ian Landsman]: Mm-hmm.

[Aaron]: I'm walking to a job interview and
there's a dog that needed water and I gave

[Aaron]: it water and I got to the interview
and the dog was the Like wow,

[Ian Landsman]: I'm

[Aaron]: that's

[Ian Landsman]: sorry.

[Aaron]: amazing. That's incredible. It's like
that's how I viewed LinkedIn forever

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: It's cringe. It's terrible. It's corporate
speak. It's nothing and to be fair. There's

[Aaron]: a lot of that still there But I went
over and posted some stuff on LinkedIn. I think

[Aaron]: the one that really Surprised me was
there's a PHP developers group over there and

[Aaron]: I went and posted my PHP doesn't suck
anymore video and it got like 400 reactions,

[Aaron]: I think is what

[Ian Landsman]: Mm-hmm.

[Aaron]: they call it, several dozen comments
and like 30,000 views of the post, not the

[Aaron]: video,

[Ian Landsman]: All

[Aaron]: so

[Ian Landsman]: right.

[Aaron]: like 30,000 impressions

[Ian Landsman]: Wow.

[Aaron]: on this LinkedIn post. And I was like,
who is active over here? And I think that's

[Aaron]: indicative of my small mind is like,
I only see

[Ian Landsman]: Hahaha.

[Aaron]: Twitter as social media, but there's
a whole

[Ian Landsman]: Right?

[Aaron]: world out there.

[Ian Landsman]: Yep.

[Aaron]: And so I've started posting a little
bit more a little bit more content over there.

[Aaron]: And I think one of my rules is always
gonna be yourself. And so I'm not doing like

[Aaron]: the, you know, the cringe business
content. I'm just basically

[Ian Landsman]: Mm-hmm.

[Aaron]: saying the same things I would say
on Twitter. And I've noticed that it's getting

[Aaron]: a lot of, like a lot of traction

[Ian Landsman]: Hmm.

[Aaron]: and I'm super surprised. And so I tweeted
something like, you know, LinkedIn might be

[Aaron]: a viable place to hang. And you said
something like, yeah, it's always been pretty

[Aaron]: good. Where, what have I been missing?

[Ian Landsman]: Well, I don't know. I said something
along those lines, but really, I

[Aaron]: You're

[Ian Landsman]: mean,

[Aaron]: really walking back the good

[Ian Landsman]: I'm

[Aaron]: thing.

[Ian Landsman]: walking back

[Aaron]: You're...

[Ian Landsman]: on that because,

[Aaron]: You don't want to be on the record
as saying it's good. Ha ha.

[Ian Landsman]: yeah, well, not that it's just
so it's very interesting. First of all, that

[Ian Landsman]: you even had a more sort of
a deeper understanding of it than I did until

[Ian Landsman]: like maybe a year or two ago
when I started relooking to it again is more

[Ian Landsman]: like, I literally just thought
it was a directory of corporate

[Aaron]: Hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: people.

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: Like and I was on there and
occasionally people would be like, you know,

[Ian Landsman]: can we connect to you or whatever
they called

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: it. And I would just go through
like once a year and like check all the little

[Ian Landsman]: check boxes for the hundred
people who asked to be connected and I would

[Ian Landsman]: let them be connected and then
I wouldn't come back for a year. And I know

[Ian Landsman]: you could in-mail. And so I
was like, okay, well, I guess people are over

[Ian Landsman]: there in-mailing each other
and like, whatever, fine. But then like recently,

[Ian Landsman]: I don't know if it's like the
fall of the, you know, kind of the semi fall

[Aaron]: Hmm

[Ian Landsman]: from grace of Twitter, we ignited
it, or this has always been going on, so maybe

[Ian Landsman]: somebody can tell us the history,
but then I was like, Oh, there's like actually

[Ian Landsman]: people like, I didn't even know
about the boss dog story. Like, I just thought

[Ian Landsman]: there was like nothing going
on there, but there's actually people posting

[Ian Landsman]: stuff there, like

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: Twitter ish social media, like
fashion. And I was like, Oh, wow. And so then,

[Ian Landsman]: yeah, like then looking around
a little more, everybody's like, yeah. Of course,

[Ian Landsman]: like LinkedIn's like the best
place to post your stuff. And I'm like, really?

[Ian Landsman]: Like, I don't even think, I
can't even think of LinkedIn. Like anytime

[Aaron]: Unfathomable.

[Ian Landsman]: I go to say anything in a social
context, I never consider LinkedIn. I never

[Ian Landsman]: think

[Aaron]: Yes.

[Ian Landsman]: about it. I've been recently
trying to make myself think about it unsuccessfully,

[Ian Landsman]: but I'm going to keep trying
because I do think, I mean, it makes sense.

[Ian Landsman]: It's like, especially if you're
on the angle of. you know, the more businessy

[Ian Landsman]: angle where I'm trying

[Aaron]: Right.

[Ian Landsman]: to get

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: my name out there for my products
or services or whatever. Well, like just talking

[Ian Landsman]: to pure business people probably
makes more sense than just the randos on

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm

[Ian Landsman]: Twitter. Right? But yeah, I
don't know. There is, have you solved this

[Ian Landsman]: barrier? Like to me, there's
things I still don't even understand. Like

[Ian Landsman]: you can be followed, but that's
different than the thing

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: with the check mark. And I don't
understand. I guess you could just follow me

[Ian Landsman]: without the check mark. And
these are

[Aaron]: Correct.

[Ian Landsman]: two separate systems, I

[Aaron]: You

[Ian Landsman]: guess.

[Aaron]: can like

[Ian Landsman]: I

[Aaron]: you

[Ian Landsman]: don't

[Aaron]: can

[Ian Landsman]: know,

[Aaron]: like

[Ian Landsman]: the whole thing's

[Aaron]: turn

[Ian Landsman]: weird.

[Aaron]: on I think you can turn on creator
mode or like something

[Ian Landsman]: Okay.

[Aaron]: like that on LinkedIn and that allows
you to have followers and then

[Ian Landsman]: Mmm.

[Aaron]: you can have the traditional like connections
where

[Ian Landsman]: Okay, and those

[Aaron]: like

[Ian Landsman]: are

[Aaron]: those

[Ian Landsman]: separate.

[Aaron]: people can message you or like you
know them

[Ian Landsman]: Right, you're the one degree,
two degree, whatever degrees separation, yeah.

[Aaron]: I don't really care about connections
over there to be honest. So sometimes I'll

[Aaron]: get a whole bunch of connection requests
and I'm like, I don't know any of you people

[Aaron]: know. And then sometimes I get some
and I'm like, sure, whatever, I don't care.

[Ian Landsman]: Right?

[Aaron]: And so I don't have really good rules
on that. But yeah, the turning on creator mode

[Aaron]: or follower mode or whatever it's called,

[Ian Landsman]: Mm.

[Aaron]: separates the number of connections
you have from the number of followers you have,

[Aaron]: which I think... makes it more like
a social network than just

[Ian Landsman]: Riot.

[Aaron]: a traditional networking type thing.

[Ian Landsman]: Well, that's why I was talking
to, I think the thing that really woke me up

[Ian Landsman]: was just like a few months ago.
And I was talking to Eric Barnes of

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: Laravel News and he was saying
how they have a hundred thousand followers

[Ian Landsman]: on LinkedIn. And I was like,

[Aaron]: Whoa.

[Ian Landsman]: what are you even talking about?
It's like, yeah, we got a hundred thousand

[Ian Landsman]: followers. And I'm like, holy
cow. Like who would have even thought? I haven't

[Ian Landsman]: even considered LinkedIn in

[Aaron]: He said

[Ian Landsman]: 20

[Aaron]: on Twitter

[Ian Landsman]: years.

[Aaron]: that LinkedIn drives more clicks to

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: Laravel News than Twitter does.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah. Which makes sense. It
all makes sense, but now it's just

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: like, how do I retrain my brain?

[Aaron]: I know.

[Ian Landsman]: It's very difficult. Um,

[Aaron]: I know.

[Ian Landsman]: but I do want to, because I
think it just makes a lot more sense over there,

[Ian Landsman]: but, uh, we'll see maybe with
some of this new stuff coming down the pike,

[Ian Landsman]: I can, I can try to rework my
brain over to there a bit more, but so what

[Ian Landsman]: have you utilized that, like,
have you posted about screencasting or what

[Aaron]: Yeah,

[Ian Landsman]: have

[Aaron]: I've posted

[Ian Landsman]: you

[Aaron]: about

[Ian Landsman]: done?

[Aaron]: screencasting,

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: I've shared some of the YouTube videos,
and

[Ian Landsman]: Mm-hmm.

[Aaron]: then something I'm trying to do as
much as makes sense whenever I have something

[Aaron]: visual to share is make a little video
about it, even if it's just like a screen recording,

[Aaron]: not like a talking head or anything.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: Because to my understanding, which
I don't spend a lot of time researching the

[Aaron]: rules of these networks, but to my
understanding, every network is like... They

[Aaron]: want you to stay, they want the viewers
to stay as long as possible. They want video,

[Aaron]: they want engagement. And so

[Ian Landsman]: Mm.

[Aaron]: I think, I always think like, what
do the networks want? What do I want to do

[Aaron]: slash what am I comfortable like putting
out there publicly? Like I don't ever want

[Aaron]: to end up in the spot where I'm I'm
like tweeting these wise business sayings

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: because they get a lot of engagement.
So like there's some happy medium between what

[Aaron]: does the network want? What do I wanna
do? What is honest to me? And honestly,

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: video is very easy. So like

[Ian Landsman]: Mm.

[Aaron]: with the site redesign,

[Ian Landsman]: That's a good point.

[Aaron]: you know, I'm tinkering around and
I'm like, hey, I like the way that this looks.

[Aaron]: I could do a screenshot and that's
better than nothing. Or I could make a little

[Aaron]: video of the interaction and then tweet
that and put that also on LinkedIn. And that

[Aaron]: I think... drives the engagement up
a little bit and at least drives

[Ian Landsman]: Mmm.

[Aaron]: the watch time up. And then so then
Twitter's like, ah, we'll push this to more

[Aaron]: people.

[Ian Landsman]: Right?

[Aaron]: So that's kind of what I've done recently
is take these short little screen recording

[Aaron]: videos that are like 30 seconds or
whatever,

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: and then put a little bit of text with
like, hey, I'm working on this thing. And that's

[Aaron]: another thing. I always wanna be like
a little bit of the moment and talk about what

[Aaron]: I'm actually doing and not

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: like. I'm sitting in my ivory tower
talking about, you know, how you should think

[Aaron]: about software development or business.

[Ian Landsman]: Right?

[Aaron]: It's

[Ian Landsman]: Ha ha

[Aaron]: like, ah, that's just not my brand
and I don't wanna do that. So that's kinda

[Aaron]: what I'm thinking in terms of what
am I putting on specifically LinkedIn at this

[Aaron]: point.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah, now that I have the new
video set up, I kind of want to do more video

[Ian Landsman]: too. I think that makes sense.
It is pretty quick to do really. And

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: I'll have the screencasting
course to

[Aaron]: Exactly.

[Ian Landsman]: make sure I'm doing it correctly.
Cause that is

[Aaron]: Yep.

[Ian Landsman]: the part I get into like screen
flow and I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing

[Ian Landsman]: in here. Forget

[Aaron]: Yep,

[Ian Landsman]: it. So

[Aaron]: yep,

[Ian Landsman]: like,

[Aaron]: I got you.

[Ian Landsman]: that'll be good. Yeah. So, yeah.
So doing more video. How do you handle this?

[Ian Landsman]: Like, there is this so, I'm
starting to think about some of the stuff for

[Ian Landsman]: like my new projects. And...
It's like how early you talk about them. Like

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: I hate, you know, cause you're
so small, whether it was just you or even with

[Ian Landsman]: a small team, it's like stuff
just comes up and then you're sidetracked for

[Ian Landsman]: a month. That just

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: happens all the time.

[Aaron]: Uh

[Ian Landsman]: And

[Aaron]: huh.

[Ian Landsman]: so then you don't make any progress
for a month. And

[Aaron]: Uhhhhhh...

[Ian Landsman]: so I hate talking about it like
too early, but also you have to talk about

[Ian Landsman]: it. I think a lot

[Aaron]: You've

[Ian Landsman]: of the

[Aaron]: got

[Ian Landsman]: interest

[Aaron]: to.

[Ian Landsman]: and engagement

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: is like, here's what I'm doing.
This is what went wrong. So if I'm not talking

[Ian Landsman]: about it early, then it's just
like, oh, it's launch day. And then whatever,

[Aaron]: Exactly.

[Ian Landsman]: you haven't built up any momentum.
So

[Aaron]: Yep.

[Ian Landsman]: there is this like balance Like
I want it to be functional to some degree before

[Ian Landsman]: I really get into talking about
it, but also not too

[Aaron]: Man.

[Ian Landsman]: far along that it's already
too far along. So I don't know.

[Aaron]: I feel that deep in my bones

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah,

[Aaron]: because like

[Ian Landsman]: it's

[Aaron]: we

[Ian Landsman]: tricky.

[Aaron]: talked about, you know, expansion,
contraction, you do a thing and then you're

[Aaron]: like, I can't do this thing right now.
And then, you know, you cut it. And I'll be

[Aaron]: honest, it's a little embarrassing
to talk about something you're doing

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah,

[Aaron]: and then

[Ian Landsman]: that's true too.

[Aaron]: have to like have to pull back for
a second. And then months later, people are

[Aaron]: like, oh, are you ever going to finish
that thing? And you're like, yeah, honestly,

[Aaron]: I'm trying. Like

[Ian Landsman]: Right?

[Aaron]: yes, I want to.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: And I will. But like, I... I have a
full life full of things that I'm doing that

[Aaron]: are not just like the one thing that
I'm tweeting about or the one thing that you

[Aaron]: latched

[Ian Landsman]: Right?

[Aaron]: on to that I'm tweeting about, right?

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: So yeah, I feel that a lot. And I think
the risk, so the benefits, let's talk about

[Aaron]: the benefits. The upside I think is
potentially unlimited, you know?

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: You share the thing, somebody shares
it, whatever, the whole deal of like, you put

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: yourself out there, good things are
gonna happen. The downside is you're gonna

[Aaron]: potentially be embarrassed. And I feel
that a lot. Like I

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: feel that a whole lot of, I'll put
something out there and then have to drop it

[Aaron]: for sometimes a long time and people
are like, why didn't you do that? And it is

[Aaron]: embarrassing and it sucks and I hate
it.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: But I think it's better, like I have
found that it's better to just like, talk about

[Aaron]: what you're working on at the time.
And then like, just kind of hope that you carry

[Aaron]: it through. Like I have

[Ian Landsman]: Right?

[Aaron]: a lot of open, I have a lot of open
threads on what I'm doing and what people know

[Aaron]: that I'm doing and that sort of stuff.
And sometimes I'll

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: pick up a thread and like push it down
the road a little bit, mixed metaphor. I'll

[Aaron]: push the, you know, kick the ball

[Ian Landsman]: Right?

[Aaron]: down the field, whatever.

[Ian Landsman]: Ha ha.

[Aaron]: And sometimes I have to drop it. But
like, I think the screencasting one is a good

[Aaron]: example. I didn't really tweet much
about it at all until I was pretty close to

[Aaron]: being done because that one I knew
like... man, you got a long road ahead of you.

[Aaron]: Like you just got the design

[Ian Landsman]: Right?

[Aaron]: done and the design is very cool. I
got the design done in like April or something,

[Ian Landsman]: Alright.

[Aaron]: but I hadn't recorded a single video
and I was like,

[Ian Landsman]: Mmm.

[Aaron]: I'm not gonna start this treadmill
until I'm pretty

[Ian Landsman]: All

[Aaron]: close

[Ian Landsman]: right,

[Aaron]: to done because

[Ian Landsman]: so there

[Aaron]: that

[Ian Landsman]: you go.

[Aaron]: one

[Ian Landsman]: That's

[Aaron]: I wanted,

[Ian Landsman]: a good example for me,

[Aaron]: yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: I like that, yeah.

[Aaron]: I wanna keep the hype, like I wanna
carry the hype through to like the launch day

[Aaron]: where people pay me money and buy the
thing

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: instead of like, this is something
I'm just kind of working on, let's all see

[Aaron]: how it develops together. So,

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: I don't know, it's tough.

[Ian Landsman]: It is tough. It's, it's a very
tough call. Yeah. But I liked that idea. I

[Ian Landsman]: mean, I guess that's kind of
what I was thinking. It's like, I want to get

[Ian Landsman]: things to a point where they're
like semi-functional and more than just an

[Ian Landsman]: idea in my head, but then

[Aaron]: Yes.

[Ian Landsman]: definitely way before. Yeah.
It's coming out in a month or whatever. Like

[Ian Landsman]: it's

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: gotta be before that. Um, what
kind of gets into this whole idea too of like,

[Ian Landsman]: uh, I don't know, maybe we should
say this for another episode, but I want to

[Ian Landsman]: get into that Tony Fidel tweet
at some point that I'm obsessed

[Aaron]: Yeah,

[Ian Landsman]: with. And

[Aaron]: let's

[Ian Landsman]: let's

[Aaron]: save

[Ian Landsman]: say

[Aaron]: that,

[Ian Landsman]: that.

[Aaron]: because I feel like

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah, let's say that.

[Aaron]: that's gonna be a big one. You know

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: what I wanna end on?

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah, let's give

[Aaron]: I wanna

[Ian Landsman]: it.

[Aaron]: end on the fact that your kids aren't
gonna drive. What's going on there?

[Ian Landsman]: Uh, trust me, this

[Aaron]: Ha!

[Ian Landsman]: is a very interesting, interesting
story. You as a young, a young parent, um,

[Ian Landsman]: I'm going to come down, be the
old wise man

[Aaron]: Alright,

[Ian Landsman]: here

[Aaron]: yeah,

[Ian Landsman]: in part

[Aaron]: tell me.

[Ian Landsman]: knowledge that like. You just
have all these thoughts about your kids when

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: they're little or before you
have kids or all these things. And then like

[Ian Landsman]: what actually how the world
changes along the way is quite interesting.

[Ian Landsman]: And then how that impacts your
children is quite interesting because the world

[Ian Landsman]: you have your kids in will not
be the world that they grow up in and then

[Ian Landsman]: become young

[Aaron]: True.

[Ian Landsman]: adults in.

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: And so. Yeah, like everything's
changed in the world. So I don't know, of the

[Ian Landsman]: three kids, only the oldest
so far has not got his license and doesn't

[Ian Landsman]: have really any interest

[Aaron]: Okay,

[Ian Landsman]: in

[Aaron]: hit

[Ian Landsman]: driving.

[Aaron]: me with the ages

[Ian Landsman]: So.

[Aaron]: again. How old are they?

[Ian Landsman]: So he's 17

[Aaron]: Seventeen.

[Ian Landsman]: and then the younger two are
too young guys, 13 and 10. So,

[Aaron]: Okay, so the

[Ian Landsman]: but the

[Aaron]: 17

[Ian Landsman]: other two,

[Aaron]: year old.

[Ian Landsman]: at least right now are the younger
two are like, we want to drive like they are

[Ian Landsman]: a little more

[Aaron]: Okay.

[Ian Landsman]: like how I felt. I mean, I was
there literally the day I turned 16

[Aaron]: Yep, same.

[Ian Landsman]: in, in the DMV to like get my
license and do all this stuff. Fine. Uh, but

[Ian Landsman]: yeah, the oldest he's not interested
in it. And then at first we're

[Aaron]: So how

[Ian Landsman]: like.

[Aaron]: does he get around?

[Ian Landsman]: It's totally, he is okay with
sacrifices. I would not be okay with. So

[Aaron]: Okay.

[Ian Landsman]: like, obviously we take them
or, um, pretty much like, obviously we're taking

[Ian Landsman]: it most of the time, he has
a girlfriend. So sometimes the girlfriend's

[Ian Landsman]: family takes him, but like even

[Aaron]: Does

[Ian Landsman]: right

[Aaron]: the

[Ian Landsman]: there,

[Aaron]: girlfriend

[Ian Landsman]: like,

[Aaron]: drive? The girlfriend doesn't

[Ian Landsman]: no,

[Aaron]: drive either?

[Ian Landsman]: the girlfriend doesn't drive
and he doesn't

[Aaron]: What?

[Ian Landsman]: drive. I know. And so like when

[Aaron]: Oh my goodness!

[Ian Landsman]: I, so I'm married to the woman
I was dating when I was his age. So we are

[Ian Landsman]: married, my wife and I have
been

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: together the whole time. And
like, I was, I lived at her house. Like I,

[Ian Landsman]: like as soon as I got my license,
I was gone. I was at

[Aaron]: Yeah!

[Ian Landsman]: her house all day every day.
And We would go, whatever, we're driving all

[Ian Landsman]: over. We'd go to New York City,
even though that was illegal, because you have

[Ian Landsman]: to be 18 to drive there. We'd
be all over the place, right? And so we just,

[Ian Landsman]: I mean, I literally was never
home. The minute I got my license, that was

[Ian Landsman]: it. That's the last my family
saw me. I was out like 8 a.m. till midnight

[Ian Landsman]: every day. I was out in the
world.

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: And I don't know, he's like
fine with it. And part of that is like that

[Ian Landsman]: the technology, like whatever,
he can talk to his girlfriend, he can message

[Ian Landsman]: her, he can video chat with
her, he could do whatever, like. I don't know,

[Ian Landsman]: like they're okay with it. And
so then we started like just seeing these articles

[Ian Landsman]: pop up. This is not even weird.
Like this is just a, this is a thing now. Like

[Aaron]: YEELEY

[Ian Landsman]: it's like a huge percentage
of kids are not getting their license when

[Ian Landsman]: they're 16. It's like 50% or
something crazy. And, and yeah, so I don't

[Ian Landsman]: know. Like,

[Aaron]: Wow.

[Ian Landsman]: is it because I know there's
Uber? Is it because like people are gonna live

[Ian Landsman]: in cities and they feel like
they don't need it? I don't know, but. He doesn't

[Ian Landsman]: really have any interest in
he's okay with the limitations of like obviously

[Ian Landsman]: only being able to go places
when we can take him for the most part. And,

[Ian Landsman]: um, yeah,

[Aaron]: Wow,

[Ian Landsman]: so it's very,

[Aaron]: I cannot

[Ian Landsman]: it's

[Aaron]: imagine.

[Ian Landsman]: very interesting.

[Aaron]: Okay, so being 16, driving through
McDonald's and getting a McFlurry,

[Ian Landsman]: Lived

[Aaron]: and then

[Ian Landsman]: at McDonald's.

[Aaron]: drive around at like 11 at night, listening
to Postal Service, thinking

[Ian Landsman]: Yup.

[Aaron]: about how you're never gonna die. Like
that

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: is being 16!

[Ian Landsman]: I know. It's

[Aaron]: Wow!

[Ian Landsman]: very strange to me. That is,
yes. I would just drive up and down our main

[Ian Landsman]: road, like

[Aaron]: Yes,

[Ian Landsman]: listen

[Aaron]: for

[Ian Landsman]: to music.

[Aaron]: sure. Take the long way home, yep.

[Ian Landsman]: Yup. Just like back and forth
and yeah. Like, but you know, that's a whole

[Ian Landsman]: weird thing. I mean, with technology,
I think, I mean, this is all part of the, I

[Ian Landsman]: guess, I feel like it's possibly
a detriment. Who knows if it's actually

[Aaron]: That was a

[Ian Landsman]: a

[Aaron]: deep

[Ian Landsman]: detriment,

[Aaron]: breath. You

[Ian Landsman]: but

[Aaron]: were stealing

[Ian Landsman]: yeah.

[Aaron]: yourself for that whatever you were
about to say

[Ian Landsman]: But

[Aaron]: there.

[Ian Landsman]: it's like even just driving
around in my town, which is the

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: town I grew up in. So I know
this town very well. I mean, when I'd ride

[Ian Landsman]: my bike around before I had
a license, I mean,

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: there was kids everywhere, kids
on bikes.

[Aaron]: Yep,

[Ian Landsman]: I remember

[Aaron]: yep.

[Ian Landsman]: being scared of the kids on
bikes. I remember

[Aaron]: Yep.

[Ian Landsman]: being friends with other kids
on bikes, kids walking, kids everywhere. And

[Ian Landsman]: there's no kids anywhere now.
Like there's no kids riding bikes. There's

[Ian Landsman]: no kids walking. There's no
kids anywhere. So I do think there is. And

[Ian Landsman]: then, I mean, you think about
like how did COVID impact all that?

[Aaron]: Yeah,

[Ian Landsman]: Like a

[Aaron]: for

[Ian Landsman]: lot of

[Aaron]: sure.

[Ian Landsman]: these kids in their kind of
formative years were like, well, no, now like

[Ian Landsman]: you're already staying inside
a lot because you have game systems and phones

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: and all these things. And now
like, no, you're really staying inside. And

[Ian Landsman]: I don't know. So it's just like
that. This is the culture

[Aaron]: Amazing.

[Ian Landsman]: for this age range, but I don't
know. He said he might get it at some point.

[Ian Landsman]: So he's not totally, totally
written it off. but he's not in any rush

[Aaron]: Wow.

[Ian Landsman]: which is very interesting and
definitely one of these things where like yeah

[Ian Landsman]: like I would never in a million
years think I'd have a kid who didn't want

[Ian Landsman]: to drive because like I was
like driver number one like I was there

[Aaron]: Yeah,

[Ian Landsman]: minute

[Aaron]: for

[Ian Landsman]: one

[Aaron]: real.

[Ian Landsman]: doing it so yeah it's interesting

[Aaron]: Yeah, I mean, my bet with my wife is
that our kids will never learn to drive because

[Aaron]: cars will drive themselves.

[Ian Landsman]: I

[Aaron]: Not,

[Ian Landsman]: saw you say that.

[Aaron]: yeah, not because they won't want to.
Maybe I'll win the bet on a technicality.

[Ian Landsman]: Man.

[Aaron]: So like, maybe that's

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah,

[Aaron]: a good

[Ian Landsman]: there

[Aaron]: thing.

[Ian Landsman]: you go.

[Aaron]: I love winning. Yeah, as long as I
win, I'm happy. But

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: I've been watching like the, I think
it's Zooks, maybe Z-O-O-X has won.

[Ian Landsman]: Mmm.

[Aaron]: Cruise has won. But like the Zooks
cars are, it's interesting when you go to like

[Aaron]: autonomous vehicles, for real autonomous
vehicles,

[Ian Landsman]: Mm-hmm.

[Aaron]: they don't have to be, the interiors
don't have to be designed and shaped like cars

[Aaron]: of the

[Ian Landsman]: I

[Aaron]: past,

[Ian Landsman]: know, that's

[Aaron]: right?

[Ian Landsman]: what I want, yeah.

[Aaron]: Yeah, and so these Zooks cars are like
mobile living rooms, basically, or they're

[Aaron]: like, you know, single, like single
parts of a train, but on wheels. So you have

[Aaron]: like,

[Ian Landsman]: Right?

[Aaron]: I think four seats that face each other
and you just kind of push a button and it shows

[Aaron]: up and the little, you know, the little
doors open and you climb in and then they close

[Aaron]: and... I think that's gonna be, frankly,
I think that's gonna be the future. I think

[Aaron]: it's gonna be, even if you own one,
maybe you own one, maybe not everything is

[Aaron]: a rental or on demand or whatever,
but you have a vehicle that you can get in

[Aaron]: and tune out until you get to the spot
you're going. And we don't have time to talk

[Aaron]: about it today, but also I think tunnels
are the future. You can get me started about

[Ian Landsman]: You're

[Aaron]: tunnels.

[Ian Landsman]: full

[Aaron]: We

[Ian Landsman]: on the Elon,

[Aaron]: could, we could

[Ian Landsman]: the

[Aaron]: do it,

[Ian Landsman]: Elon

[Aaron]: we could,

[Ian Landsman]: train.

[Aaron]: yeah, we could do a whole hour on how
everything should be underground. So, but I

[Aaron]: think, I think that's the future, but
hey, if I went on a technicality

[Ian Landsman]: Hmm.

[Aaron]: of like, you know, kids just want to
stay inside, I

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah,

[Aaron]: guess I win.

[Ian Landsman]: I mean, you should check the
fine print of your,

[Aaron]: I

[Ian Landsman]: of

[Aaron]: know,

[Ian Landsman]: your bet

[Aaron]: I need

[Ian Landsman]: there

[Aaron]: to,

[Ian Landsman]: of

[Aaron]: I need,

[Ian Landsman]: if it

[Aaron]: I know.

[Ian Landsman]: actually is, does it have to
be truly autonomous or just that nobody drives

[Aaron]: I

[Ian Landsman]: anymore?

[Aaron]: know,

[Ian Landsman]: Cause

[Aaron]: maybe

[Ian Landsman]: everybody

[Aaron]: I'll

[Ian Landsman]: is

[Aaron]: keep

[Ian Landsman]: V

[Aaron]: bringing it up to her and

[Ian Landsman]: it's

[Aaron]: I'll just

[Ian Landsman]: all

[Aaron]: drop

[Ian Landsman]: Apple

[Aaron]: like

[Ian Landsman]: VR

[Aaron]: the autonomous.

[Ian Landsman]: headsets and like nobody actually
leaves their house anymore.

[Aaron]: Yeah,

[Ian Landsman]: So yeah,

[Aaron]: exactly.

[Ian Landsman]: it could be, it could be. All

[Aaron]: Okay, well we'll see,

[Ian Landsman]: right,

[Aaron]: check

[Ian Landsman]: man.

[Aaron]: back in. Let's see, they're

[Ian Landsman]: We'll,

[Aaron]: two years

[Ian Landsman]: we'll check

[Aaron]: old, check

[Ian Landsman]: back.

[Aaron]: back in 14 years.

[Ian Landsman]: Episode

[Aaron]: So y'all stay tuned. Yeah,

[Ian Landsman]: 7,846

[Aaron]: stay tuned to the pod. Yeah,

[Ian Landsman]: will.

[Aaron]: exactly.

[Ian Landsman]: We'll know for sure, but I mean
sounds good

[Aaron]: Alright, talk to you soon. See ya!

[Ian Landsman]: We will yeah, I want to hey
hold on

[Aaron]: Oh

[Ian Landsman]: I want

[Aaron]: wow

[Ian Landsman]: to know

[Aaron]: we have a

[Ian Landsman]: I

[Aaron]: whole

[Ian Landsman]: know

[Aaron]: list

[Ian Landsman]: to know

[Aaron]: now!

[Ian Landsman]: where to find us Yes, because
every episode you like

[Aaron]: We

[Ian Landsman]: tell him

[Aaron]: fumbled

[Ian Landsman]: where to find

[Aaron]: it last

[Ian Landsman]: us.

[Aaron]: time.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah,

[Aaron]: All

[Ian Landsman]: and

[Aaron]: right,

[Ian Landsman]: I'm always

[Aaron]: okay,

[Ian Landsman]: like, I

[Aaron]: back

[Ian Landsman]: don't know

[Aaron]: up, back

[Ian Landsman]: where to

[Aaron]: up,

[Ian Landsman]: find

[Aaron]: back up.

[Ian Landsman]: us

[Aaron]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do the thing

[Ian Landsman]: I don't

[Aaron]: where

[Ian Landsman]: know

[Aaron]: you say, all right, man, and I'll say,
all right, and then we'll go to where to find

[Aaron]: us. So start over, go ahead.

[Ian Landsman]: All right, man

[Aaron]: All right, well, Ian, where can people
find us? That was perfect.

[Ian Landsman]: You can find us at mostlytechnical.com,
on Twitter at mostlytechpod. I guess we should

[Ian Landsman]: get a LinkedIn. I don't know
if that's even a thing, but we should look

[Ian Landsman]: into

[Aaron]: Oh

[Ian Landsman]: that.

[Aaron]: no.

[Ian Landsman]: And then mostlytechnicalpodcast.gmail.com.
So if you have feedback, you can send that

[Ian Landsman]: there, or just hit us up on
Twitter, and we will note that for the feedback

[Ian Landsman]: segments. But all right, thanks
everybody.

[Aaron]: Okay now that's the end, see ya!

[Ian Landsman]: See ya!