04: The Year of Livewire

Ian & Aaron discuss what's new with Screencasting.com & HelloQuery, why LinkedIn might not be terrible, and why 2024 is going to be the year of Livewire.

Sponsored by LaraJobs & HelloQuery.

Sent questions or feedback to [e-mail]

Links for this week's episode:

• Ian's tweet about Taylor Swift
• National Postal Museum
• TopGolf
• HelpSpot
• IanLandsman.com
• Aaron's tweet about working on his website
• Advanced Inertia by Boris Lepikhin
• Ian's tweet about the year of Livewire
• Philo Hermans' website

Creators and Guests

Host

Aaron Francis

Founder of Solo. Sincere poster. No cynicism. Dad to two sets of twins!

Host

Ian Landsman

Founder HelpSpot, LaraJobs, and Outro.fm

Producer

Dave Hicking

Agency Partnerships at @laravelphp

What is Mostly Technical?

Hosted by Ian Landsman and Aaron Francis, Mostly Technical is a lively discussion on Laravel, business, and an eclectic mix of related topics.

[Ian Landsman]: Hello?

[Aaron]: Welcome back. We're gonna start right
away. I got a bone to pick with you, Ian.

[Ian Landsman]: Oh baby,

[Aaron]: Yeah, welcome home from vacation.

[Ian Landsman]: I love some

[Aaron]: You said

[Ian Landsman]: controversy.

[Aaron]: on Twitter that Taylor Swift is the
greatest business person of her generation,

[Aaron]: as if Taylor Swift and I weren't born
in 1989, the same year. So here's the issue.

[Aaron]: If we're judging by money or

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: sold out stadiums or... Cultural Impact
or

[Ian Landsman]: Sure.

[Aaron]: Platinum Albums? Sure, fine, she's
the best. If we're judging by maintained and

[Aaron]: half maintained GitHub repos, I'm on
the list. I

[Ian Landsman]: You're out

[Aaron]: gotta

[Ian Landsman]: there.

[Aaron]: be above her, right?

[Ian Landsman]: You have to be right? I think

[Aaron]: Okay,

[Ian Landsman]: so. I

[Aaron]: so

[Ian Landsman]: can't imagine

[Aaron]: I guess my point

[Ian Landsman]: her.

[Aaron]: is, what are we judging on is the question.

[Ian Landsman]: I can't imagine her GitHub repo
game is as strong as yours, right? Like

[Aaron]: I appreciate

[Ian Landsman]: I just can't.

[Aaron]: that.

[Ian Landsman]: I just can't.

[Aaron]: I was just looking for a little, like,
a little nuance to the conversation.

[Ian Landsman]: Oh man, yeah, I know it's, uh,
she's so good. I don't know, but yeah.

[Aaron]: So she's now selling, she's now outselling
like Avengers in pre, what is it? She's doing

[Aaron]: a concert movie that she's pre-selling?

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah, so she's had like the
biggest concert series ever over this past

[Ian Landsman]: year. And it actually continues
into next year. But, uh, you know, tickets

[Ian Landsman]: are, I don't know, a friend
of mine, uh, just bought tickets for like $3,000

[Ian Landsman]: a ticket for next November.
So, I mean, it's

[Aaron]: Oh

[Ian Landsman]: insane.

[Aaron]: my gosh.

[Ian Landsman]: Um, and so she's been on this
tour. and she's been recording, you know, obviously

[Ian Landsman]: she's recording videos of herself.
I think

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: all artists do this, like they
record the audio and the video, whatever, just

[Ian Landsman]: in case they ever wanna use
it for something. But she's obviously got more

[Ian Landsman]: of a plan than that, and she's
releasing it in the movie theaters. So you

[Ian Landsman]: can go see it in this break
of the tour over the winter, she's not

[Aaron]: Amazing.

[Ian Landsman]: performing till next spring,
she's gonna have the movie, so people who can't

[Ian Landsman]: spend $3,000 can go see it in
the movie theater 20 bucks or whatever. So

[Ian Landsman]: I of course got tickets to go
see

[Aaron]: Of

[Ian Landsman]: it

[Aaron]: course,

[Ian Landsman]: in IMAX.

[Aaron]: yeah!

[Ian Landsman]: You know, I need a seven story
Taylor Swift

[Aaron]: Of course.

[Ian Landsman]: and yeah, I'm pretty excited
about

[Aaron]: Yep.

[Ian Landsman]: that.

[Aaron]: My wife and several of our friends
went to the tour and they

[Ian Landsman]: Mm-hmm.

[Aaron]: resurrected the group chat and were
like, all right, when are we buying tickets

[Aaron]: to go see the movie? It's like, yeah,
of course

[Ian Landsman]: You

[Aaron]: they're

[Ian Landsman]: gotta

[Aaron]: going to go

[Ian Landsman]: see

[Aaron]: see

[Ian Landsman]: it. Yeah. All the

[Aaron]: it.

[Ian Landsman]: angles

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: you can see.

[Aaron]: I think I saw AMC movie theaters said
that they were like beefing up their infrastructure

[Aaron]: so that they could start doing the
presale. and somebody was like talking about

[Aaron]: how Taylor Swift is an ops queen because
she's making all of these companies

[Ian Landsman]: Hehehehe

[Aaron]: increase their ops so that they can
handle the rush.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah, and that's what you were
saying, is that AMC broke all kinds of records

[Ian Landsman]: for presales

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: and things. And yeah, so I mean,
she's just gonna print all the money. It's

[Ian Landsman]: like, she's totally ready, right?
She's had a plan. Like, I didn't even consider

[Ian Landsman]: this. I don't think

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: many people even thought about
it. I don't think anybody knew about it. And

[Ian Landsman]: she just comes out of the blue,
obviously well planned, not actually out of

[Ian Landsman]: the blue. And it's like, boom,
oh, tour's ended for this year. Here it is

[Ian Landsman]: in the movie theater. Everybody

[Aaron]: Yep.

[Ian Landsman]: can go. And...

[Aaron]: And super smart that she didn't cannibalize
her own tour sales, because

[Ian Landsman]: Yes,

[Aaron]: it wasn't like, there

[Ian Landsman]: wait

[Aaron]: will be

[Ian Landsman]: on that.

[Aaron]: a movie, you don't have to come.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah,

[Aaron]: Nope.

[Ian Landsman]: nope. She's and then while the
iron's hot, right, while

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm

[Ian Landsman]: everybody's talking about it
and it's a huge cultural moment, it's like,

[Ian Landsman]: boom, nope, it keeps going.
We're not stopping the train. Here's here's

[Ian Landsman]: the movie version. And obviously,

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: then there'll be the home version
and blah, blah. And yeah, so I mean, it's just

[Ian Landsman]: going to lead

[Aaron]: Okay,

[Ian Landsman]: into

[Aaron]: I will allow

[Ian Landsman]: next year.

[Aaron]: it. I will allow her to edge me out
for business person of the year 1989. That

[Aaron]: sounds fine to me.

[Ian Landsman]: What an honor that you were
born in the same

[Aaron]: Right?

[Ian Landsman]: year as Taylor Swift.

[Aaron]: I know.

[Ian Landsman]: That's, that's amazing. I wish

[Aaron]: I

[Ian Landsman]: I could

[Aaron]: know.

[Ian Landsman]: say that. Unbelievable.

[Aaron]: I know. It's really it's an honor and
it's also like, oh, dang, we're the same age.

[Aaron]: Shoot, that sucks.

[Ian Landsman]: She's a little ahead.

[Aaron]: Yeah. We're playing a different game,

[Ian Landsman]: Money

[Aaron]: that's

[Ian Landsman]: wise,

[Aaron]: all. We're, yeah,

[Ian Landsman]: yeah, different

[Aaron]: money-wise,

[Ian Landsman]: game.

[Aaron]: not open source repo-wise.

[Ian Landsman]: You know, if you listen to her
songs, you know, she has not done so well in

[Ian Landsman]: the love department. And I think
you're ahead in the love

[Aaron]: That

[Ian Landsman]: department

[Aaron]: is true.

[Ian Landsman]: and the kid department and all
the, that end of the world, you're in the lead.

[Aaron]: That is

[Ian Landsman]: You're

[Aaron]: true, that is

[Ian Landsman]: just

[Aaron]: a

[Ian Landsman]: behind

[Aaron]: very good

[Ian Landsman]: on the

[Aaron]: point.

[Ian Landsman]: money, but you're working on
that.

[Aaron]: But

[Ian Landsman]: We

[Aaron]: we'll

[Ian Landsman]: got

[Aaron]: get

[Ian Landsman]: you there.

[Aaron]: there, yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: We'll get there, y'all come to my movie.
Okay, so you're back.

[Ian Landsman]: I'm back and you're back. This

[Aaron]: We're all

[Ian Landsman]: is the

[Aaron]: back.

[Ian Landsman]: first episode that we're in

[Aaron]: Uh-huh.

[Ian Landsman]: our, both in home turf. So

[Aaron]: That's right.

[Ian Landsman]: this is exciting.

[Aaron]: How was the

[Ian Landsman]: Proper

[Aaron]: return

[Ian Landsman]: cameras.

[Aaron]: home?

[Ian Landsman]: Good. We also had a long, you
know, you were on a long trip. This

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: is like the longest trip, like
road trip, I think we've really ever taken

[Ian Landsman]: down to the Outer Banks. So
that was a bit of a haul, but the kids are

[Ian Landsman]: big now. So it wasn't too bad,
not too much fighting and crying and stuff

[Ian Landsman]: like that. Everybody's...

[Aaron]: That's good.

[Ian Landsman]: humanoid now, which is awesome.

[Aaron]: Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe

[Ian Landsman]: And so, uh, yeah. So we actually
stopped in DC both ways to, uh, just like break

[Ian Landsman]: up the trip to avoid the 11
or 12 hours straight through. Um, and

[Aaron]: Did

[Ian Landsman]: that

[Aaron]: y'all do

[Ian Landsman]: worked

[Aaron]: any

[Ian Landsman]: out nice.

[Aaron]: like sightseeing or was it just overnight?

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah. The first, the way down,
we did do say singing. We've been there a few

[Ian Landsman]: times before, but, um, you know,
kind of walked the national mall,

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: I love the Lincoln Memorial.
It's my favorite. So hit up Lincoln. Um, did

[Ian Landsman]: that kind of area. And then
I know we went out to dinner, whatnot. And

[Ian Landsman]: then way back, we were gonna
go to the postal museum. We didn't even realize

[Ian Landsman]: there was a postal

[Aaron]: Oh.

[Ian Landsman]: museum. We were like, oh, postal
museum. But anyway, it didn't happen.

[Aaron]: What is that?

[Ian Landsman]: We got

[Aaron]: Just

[Ian Landsman]: there

[Aaron]: a bunch

[Ian Landsman]: too

[Aaron]: of

[Ian Landsman]: late.

[Aaron]: letters? Or what do

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah,

[Aaron]: they have

[Ian Landsman]: this

[Aaron]: there?

[Ian Landsman]: is what the kids theory was.
Like it's just stamps.

[Aaron]: That's just

[Ian Landsman]: Not

[Aaron]: lost

[Ian Landsman]: going to see

[Aaron]: mail.

[Ian Landsman]: just stamps. Yeah, it's all
lost mail. So I don't know what's there because

[Ian Landsman]: I didn't get to it because we
got

[Aaron]: Oh, well.

[Ian Landsman]: going kind of late and then
it wasn't gonna work out. So everybody was

[Ian Landsman]: exhausted. But we just went
into the hotel. I played poker because there

[Ian Landsman]: was a

[Aaron]: Did

[Ian Landsman]: reasonable

[Aaron]: you win?

[Ian Landsman]: casino there. I lost a few hundred
dollars, so not too

[Aaron]: Ah!

[Ian Landsman]: bad. But I did play like a super
long session and it was a good game. Like there

[Ian Landsman]: was, it was a great game actually,
but I just couldn't find the right spots.

[Aaron]: If I know anything about gambling and
I don't, the strategy is you should chase your

[Aaron]: losses. I think that's what you're
supposed

[Ian Landsman]: Right?

[Aaron]: to do.

[Ian Landsman]: Ha ha

[Aaron]: Like

[Ian Landsman]: ha.

[Aaron]: if you're down, you just keep playing
and eventually it turns around.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah, so I mean, this is sort
of the level, it was like a five, 10 for those

[Ian Landsman]: of you who play poker. So $300
loss is actually like almost kind of even,

[Ian Landsman]: which is fine.

[Aaron]: Yeah, 510, that feels like a lot.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah,

[Aaron]: Feels like

[Ian Landsman]: that's

[Aaron]: a

[Ian Landsman]: a

[Aaron]: big

[Ian Landsman]: bigger

[Aaron]: game.

[Ian Landsman]: game than I normally play, yeah.
So,

[Aaron]: Jeez.

[Ian Landsman]: but you know, when I have these
opportunities to play bigger games, I like

[Ian Landsman]: to take it because like where
I play locally never has that. So,

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: that was good. But we went to
Topgolf. That's the thing we did that

[Aaron]: Oh

[Ian Landsman]: night.

[Aaron]: nice.

[Ian Landsman]: We went to Topgolf, which that
was another first. So we did the Waffle House,

[Ian Landsman]: first time at Waffle House,
first

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: time at Topgolf. And that was
a lot of fun. Food was better than I expected.

[Ian Landsman]: And whatever, just get out there
and smack the golf ball around a bit.

[Aaron]: Yeah,

[Ian Landsman]: So that was cool.

[Aaron]: it's fun. It's fun that they bring
the food and drink out to you. And

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah, just gonna hang

[Aaron]: it's

[Ian Landsman]: out.

[Aaron]: like, you know, it's bar food, but
it's so fun. I don't even

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah,

[Aaron]: like

[Ian Landsman]: yeah.

[Aaron]: golf, but it's a lot

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: of fun.

[Ian Landsman]: I don't love golf either. My
middle kid is kind of in this. I don't know.

[Ian Landsman]: He's picked up golf in the last
month and he's kind of super in the zone on

[Ian Landsman]: it. So

[Aaron]: That's fun.

[Ian Landsman]: he was all jazzed and, um, yeah,
it was good. That was good. So, but good to

[Ian Landsman]: be back. I have like

[Aaron]: Good.

[Ian Landsman]: 8 million things to do.

[Aaron]: Yeah, that's what I was gonna

[Ian Landsman]: Um,

[Aaron]: ask. How's the return

[Ian Landsman]: yeah.

[Aaron]: to

[Ian Landsman]: So.

[Aaron]: the office life for you?

[Ian Landsman]: Man, it's been a crazy morning

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: already. This is the first day
back. It's absolutely bananas. We're doing

[Ian Landsman]: this like, for HelpSpot, we're
rolling out this new store. So HelpSpot has,

[Ian Landsman]: it's not like a regular SaaS
app or in the app you do things. It's got this

[Ian Landsman]: whole store set up that's separate
from the app. Because we, partially because

[Ian Landsman]: it's ancient and so that's

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: like how you did things in the
old days when you had on-premise apps, but

[Ian Landsman]: also. We do a lot of other stuff
that isn't even that easy to do with Stripe,

[Ian Landsman]: even still like invoicing,

[Aaron]: Mmm.

[Ian Landsman]: I know they do invoicing, but
we handle all kinds of different types of payment

[Ian Landsman]: and you can send us a

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: check and whatever, blah, blah.
So we have our own thing for that. And so that's

[Ian Landsman]: a new version that's rolling
out today. And in the middle

[Aaron]: today.

[Ian Landsman]: of that. Yeah. So they're working
on that. The guys are cranking away on that.

[Ian Landsman]: And then, uh, I come back to
like other, other decisions I made before I

[Ian Landsman]: left that I don't love, so I'm
fixing those decisions and then,

[Aaron]: Ah,

[Ian Landsman]: um,

[Aaron]: yes.

[Ian Landsman]: And then, uh, and then in the
middle of all that, I got one of these emails

[Ian Landsman]: where like, so I've had IanLansman.com
for whatever, 20 something years, right?

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: And one of these Reuters images,
you know, copyright royalty

[Aaron]: Mm.

[Ian Landsman]: services, uh, has hunted me
down and found an image I used in 2005.

[Aaron]: Hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: on a blog post and they want,
you know, $2,000. So

[Aaron]: What?

[Ian Landsman]: now I gotta go through all that
headache. So I like took

[Aaron]: What?

[Ian Landsman]: that down. But of course, like
my site is built on like an ancient version

[Ian Landsman]: of Jigsaw. So even just taking
down

[Aaron]: Oh

[Ian Landsman]: the page

[Aaron]: yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: was like,

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: I had to like update the whole
thing and like whatever. So I got that done,

[Ian Landsman]: got

[Aaron]: Wait,

[Ian Landsman]: the page

[Aaron]: so

[Ian Landsman]: taken down.

[Aaron]: somebody tracked you down for... What
is it? I guess a copyright violation?

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah, like I embedded a Reuters
image in a blog post in 2005. Um, probably

[Ian Landsman]: just, yeah, not obviously intentionally,
uh, from somewhere else

[Aaron]: Yeah, it

[Ian Landsman]: that

[Aaron]: was 2005,

[Ian Landsman]: presumably.

[Aaron]: it was run and gun, baby.

[Ian Landsman]: I know. So they have these services.
You know, this is just the way they're making

[Ian Landsman]: who knows. I'm sure they make
millions of dollars a quarter on juicing their

[Ian Landsman]: numbers by hunting down random
blog posts and sending threatening letters.

[Ian Landsman]: So.

[Aaron]: So are you free and clear now? Are
you just gonna ignore it?

[Ian Landsman]: I mean, it just happened this
morning. I took it down. You are absolutely

[Ian Landsman]: not free and clear when

[Aaron]: This

[Ian Landsman]: you take

[Aaron]: is

[Ian Landsman]: it

[Aaron]: legal

[Ian Landsman]: down.

[Aaron]: advice, so yeah, if you're paying attention,
we're both attorneys for sure.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah, so I think, you know,
whatever. It's one of these games, right? Where

[Ian Landsman]: like, I'm always gonna push
back on them. Hopefully they cut it down a

[Ian Landsman]: little bit. Do I think? I could
win in court. Like, I mean, I don't know, probably

[Ian Landsman]: not, to be honest with you,
because like,

[Aaron]: Hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: I use this image, it was there.

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: Um, you know, obviously when
it's a thousand dollars or let's say we get

[Ian Landsman]: down to like a thousand dollars,
like,

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: can I hire a lawyer and fight
them for a thousand dollars? Do I want to like

[Ian Landsman]: go through? Right. So it's this
whole thing. The main thing I was worried about

[Ian Landsman]: is, is it even real? So

[Aaron]: Right.

[Ian Landsman]: I went through all that. It
does seem to be real. So I don't know. It's

[Ian Landsman]: like this game where

[Aaron]: She

[Ian Landsman]: it's

[Aaron]: is.

[Ian Landsman]: not enough money to fight it.
So

[Aaron]: Right?

[Ian Landsman]: you're just kinda stuck paying
the ransom for this ridiculous blog post that

[Ian Landsman]: nobody's ever seen.

[Aaron]: Right.

[Ian Landsman]: And even when it was new in
2005, 50 people saw it. Whatever. So I went

[Ian Landsman]: through every other image that's
up there in my

[Aaron]: Oh gosh.

[Ian Landsman]: ancient history of blogs, uh,
and made sure there was nothing else to lead

[Ian Landsman]: a few things that whatever I
knew they weren't my images. Uh, I don't think

[Ian Landsman]: they didn't seem good enough
to be Reuters images,

[Aaron]: I'm sorry.

[Ian Landsman]: but whatever they were just
whatever delete them. So anyway, so that's

[Aaron]: Wow,

[Ian Landsman]: been my

[Aaron]: welcome

[Ian Landsman]: crazy

[Aaron]: home,

[Ian Landsman]: return

[Aaron]: that sucks.

[Ian Landsman]: to work. Exactly. So

[Aaron]: Now

[Ian Landsman]: how's

[Aaron]: I'm thinking

[Ian Landsman]: things with you?

[Aaron]: we should start a business that exploits
those images and

[Ian Landsman]: Ha ha.

[Aaron]: emails and demands payment. That sounds
pretty awesome.

[Ian Landsman]: This is exactly what my wife
said. She's like, we needed one of these gigs.

[Ian Landsman]: I'm like,

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: yeah. Or what about we take
the white hat version of that, a service that

[Ian Landsman]: checks your websites and says,
hey,

[Aaron]: Okay.

[Ian Landsman]: some of these images look a
little iffy. You might want to clean this up

[Ian Landsman]: before these bad guys get ahold

[Aaron]: before

[Ian Landsman]: of you.

[Aaron]: we sell

[Ian Landsman]: So,

[Aaron]: the lead to the bad guys who are

[Ian Landsman]: right.

[Aaron]: gonna sue you.

[Ian Landsman]: Right, exactly.

[Aaron]: I think that's like a protection racket.
So

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah,

[Aaron]: yeah,

[Ian Landsman]: I love

[Aaron]: probably

[Ian Landsman]: a good gangster,

[Aaron]: no good there. Yeah,

[Ian Landsman]: gangster thing. You know, I'm
big

[Aaron]: yeah,

[Ian Landsman]: on the gangsters.

[Aaron]: yeah. Things are good over here. We
tried to do potty training for the kids over

[Aaron]: the weekend. Just total epic disaster.
Just

[Ian Landsman]: Ha ha ha.

[Aaron]: not even close to working.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: Um, so we didn't, uh, let's see, we
didn't fail. We're just going to try again

[Aaron]: later. We, we put,

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: we put a hold on it and said, okay,
this isn't, this isn't working. They are a

[Aaron]: little young to be fair. And

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: so we're just going to try again later.
But boy, that was the worst. That was not great.

[Aaron]: That was super not great.

[Ian Landsman]: Do they have an interest yet
or they're not really interested?

[Aaron]: Um, they're not really interested.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah,

[Aaron]: I'll be honest.

[Ian Landsman]: I think

[Aaron]: They're

[Ian Landsman]: it's

[Aaron]: just

[Ian Landsman]: hard

[Aaron]: interested

[Ian Landsman]: until

[Aaron]: in

[Ian Landsman]: they're

[Aaron]: like

[Ian Landsman]: interested.

[Aaron]: peeing on the floor.

[Ian Landsman]: Right,

[Aaron]: And it's like,

[Ian Landsman]: yeah.

[Aaron]: okay,

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: this is gross. Yeah, not a huge fan
of that. I'll be honest.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah, until they get the interest,
until they're showing interest in like the

[Ian Landsman]: toilet and stuff, I feel

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: like it's kind of, it's gonna
be rough there.

[Aaron]: Yeah, so back to diapers and everybody's
happy. Kids are at school today and so

[Ian Landsman]: Woohoo!

[Aaron]: my wife is feeling very light and free.
So

[Ian Landsman]: It's

[Aaron]: yeah,

[Ian Landsman]: always good.

[Aaron]: much, much better. Yeah, and then yesterday
was Labor Day and I did a little, I had a little

[Aaron]: fun me time and just redesigned my
site a little bit. Actually, that's totally

[Aaron]: not fair. Hugo, the designer at Tupel.
redesigned my personal site and then Jason

[Ian Landsman]: Nice.

[Aaron]: Beggs, a good guy Jason, built

[Ian Landsman]: Go.

[Aaron]: out a lot of it. And then you know
when you get a design done and then you start

[Aaron]: to put the real content in and you're
like, Oh man, I didn't tell the designer about

[Aaron]: this part

[Ian Landsman]: Right?

[Aaron]: and they couldn't have known and so
I'm gonna, I am going to tweak it which usually

[Aaron]: means like destroy the design.

[Ian Landsman]: Sir.

[Aaron]: But that's what I've spent a few hours
doing was like playing around with how am I

[Aaron]: gonna fit this content into this design
and It was fun, you know, tailwind, still pretty

[Aaron]: great, still

[Ian Landsman]: It's

[Aaron]: love

[Ian Landsman]: awesome.

[Aaron]: it.

[Ian Landsman]: It's the goat.

[Aaron]: I used some of those wild like descendant
selectors, very,

[Ian Landsman]: Mmm.

[Aaron]: very cool, lot of fun. So

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: yeah, a good distraction after a weekend
filled with very few wins, I will say.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah, those potty training days,
those are rough. Those are just brutal. It's

[Ian Landsman]: just brutal. Especially I can't
imagine two at once. Forget even just one is

[Ian Landsman]: a disaster. Two is

[Aaron]: Yep,

[Ian Landsman]: yeah.

[Aaron]: it scales linearly, I think.

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: It was a double

[Ian Landsman]: Linear

[Aaron]: disaster,

[Ian Landsman]: is good.

[Aaron]: yeah, for

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: sure.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah. You might have to do one
at a time just because they're twins doesn't

[Ian Landsman]: mean you have to do them both
at the same

[Aaron]: I know.

[Ian Landsman]: time too. So you could

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: whichever one takes an interest
that might help get the other one interested

[Ian Landsman]: once the one's doing it. You
know, then

[Aaron]: Yeah, that's

[Ian Landsman]: kind

[Aaron]: true.

[Ian Landsman]: of kind of go

[Aaron]: That's

[Ian Landsman]: that

[Aaron]: a

[Ian Landsman]: route

[Aaron]: good point.

[Ian Landsman]: with it. Yeah. Man, how's the
I've seen some people talking about screencasting.com

[Ian Landsman]: videos

[Aaron]: Yep.

[Ian Landsman]: as if they've seen them But
then

[Aaron]: Yep.

[Ian Landsman]: I checked and it wasn't launched.
So I don't know if you have some people like

[Aaron]: I got

[Ian Landsman]: in

[Aaron]: some

[Ian Landsman]: there

[Aaron]: people

[Ian Landsman]: testing

[Aaron]: on the mailing

[Ian Landsman]: it out

[Aaron]: list, man. So

[Ian Landsman]: Okay

[Aaron]: I'm trying to do the whole like, hey,
sign up for the mailing list, I'll send you

[Aaron]: stuff. Sign

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: up for the mailing list, I'll send
you stuff. And it's working.

[Ian Landsman]: Mm.

[Aaron]: And so I've sent out a preview of maybe
like three or four of the lessons. And then

[Aaron]: I've started to do, I started to solicit
videos from other people. Be like, send me

[Aaron]: your video, I'll do a video review
of your video.

[Ian Landsman]: Mmm.

[Aaron]: And I've sent out a few of those like,
I actually have sent out one of those teardowns

[Aaron]: and I have another one going out to
the list today. And so it's kind of like, you

[Aaron]: know, the incentive to sign up for
the list is you'll get some content early and

[Aaron]: then

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: hopefully when launch time comes, the
list will be, you know, bigger enough to make

[Aaron]: a difference. So yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: What are you looking at for
launch? When, when are you thinking that's

[Ian Landsman]: going

[Aaron]: I

[Ian Landsman]: to

[Aaron]: think,

[Ian Landsman]: happen?

[Aaron]: yeah, I think so today we're recording
is September 5th. I think it's going to be

[Aaron]: September, what is it? 20th maybe?
Whatever the Wednesday of that week

[Ian Landsman]: Okay,

[Aaron]: is. I think it's

[Ian Landsman]: oh,

[Aaron]: like two and

[Ian Landsman]: pretty

[Aaron]: a half

[Ian Landsman]: close.

[Aaron]: weeks away. Yeah, very

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: close. Um, so a lot of good, a lot
of good stuff happening there. I've also started

[Aaron]: to reach out to people to do, um, like
a screencaster spotlights. And

[Ian Landsman]: Mmm.

[Aaron]: so we got one in already, uh, Mateus
who's a, you know, friend of Laravel.

[Ian Landsman]: Yep.

[Aaron]: I reached out to him and I was like,
hey man, I would love for you to do a video

[Aaron]: on like, hey, I'm Matthias, this is
what I do, here's kind of my setup, this is

[Aaron]: my camera, my microphone, here's what
I like, here's what I don't like. So do like

[Aaron]: a short, you know, three to five minute
video on that

[Ian Landsman]: Mm-hmm.

[Aaron]: and then on the page have it listed
below of like, here's all the gear that Matthias

[Aaron]: uses, here are the links where you
can find

[Ian Landsman]: Mmm.

[Aaron]: Matthias' stuff. That way, you know,
it's a fun, like it's a fun... way for people

[Aaron]: to see what other people are doing.

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: If they start to look around at different
cameras and microphones, they can look at some

[Aaron]: of these other screencasters and be
like, oh, this guy uses the camera I was thinking

[Aaron]: about using, let me watch his video
or something like that. And I think it'll be

[Aaron]: good like social, drive social behavior,
right? Because then

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah. Ahem.

[Aaron]: every screencaster that we spotlight
is gonna wanna send people over there and be

[Aaron]: like, hey. look at this thing I have
on Screencasting.com that has like a backlink

[Aaron]: to my, you know, to my screencasting
stuff. And so trying to round out some of the

[Aaron]: content there to make the site a little
bit heavier for SEO and social stuff.

[Ian Landsman]: And everybody loves gear posts.
Like gear posts,

[Aaron]: Loves

[Ian Landsman]: just

[Aaron]: it, yes.

[Ian Landsman]: classic win. Like you're just
gonna have people wandering through there just

[Ian Landsman]: cause why not? I just love seeing
what gear people are using and what they're

[Ian Landsman]: doing with it and everything.
So that's a definite win there. Yeah, and the

[Ian Landsman]: things to work together, definitely
useful to just like, yeah, which camera maybe

[Ian Landsman]: I already have a piece of something.
Like maybe

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: I can see like, well, what are
people pairing with this and how's that going

[Ian Landsman]: and everything. So yeah, I liked
that a lot, especially with like, if they have

[Ian Landsman]: something a little bit to write
up about. how they like it or just like, is

[Ian Landsman]: there a trick? Like, oh, you
need to do this or the microphone

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: setup should be that, especially
with the mic stuff tends to be a lot of

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: things like that. Or specific
cameras having like whatever the good settings

[Ian Landsman]: for streaming or even video
setup sometimes, since they're usually kind

[Ian Landsman]: of more photography focused
by default in their default settings. Sometimes

[Ian Landsman]: you have a few tweaks there
you need to do to get it set up for the video.

[Ian Landsman]: So. I like that.

[Aaron]: Yep, yep, and I think we'll end up
with a page that's like screencasting.com slash

[Aaron]: cameras. And it'll

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: be a whole listing of like the different
camera options and then in each section for

[Aaron]: like the Canon M50, which is what I'm
running. Then

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: we can have links out to all the profiles
of people that use the Canon M50. And then

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: we can have like a full super heavy
in terms of content page for screencasting

[Aaron]: cameras. And I think... Given the domain
and the fact that we can put a ton of content

[Aaron]: on there, I think we'll rank pretty
highly for screencasting cameras.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah, especially the camera,
I think, or even the mics too. I mean, I think

[Ian Landsman]: if you had a page for each of
the big camera systems and mic systems. And

[Ian Landsman]: then even just whether it's
you or something, you know, pay somebody to

[Ian Landsman]: go through and do the work of
like, either building these or even just finding

[Ian Landsman]: the good videos about on YouTube,
about how to set them up. Because like

[Aaron]: Hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: when I was setting up for this
new setup I have here, it's like, it took me

[Ian Landsman]: like four YouTube videos and
like

[Aaron]: Yep.

[Ian Landsman]: three hours for this particular
camera, which like Sony A7C. And

[Aaron]: Mm.

[Ian Landsman]: so like this, and this is actually
a really good camera potentially for streaming,

[Ian Landsman]: like. It's a video oriented
camera to some degree anyway, but it's like

[Ian Landsman]: even that didn't have like here
is how you would set this camera up for streaming

[Ian Landsman]: and the things you

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: should do. And like, so I think
just having that for, you know, because basically

[Ian Landsman]: if you do the Sony's and the
cannons, you don't have to do every

[Aaron]: Right.

[Ian Landsman]: single one even. But the big
ones, a lot of them are same across anyway,

[Ian Landsman]: it's like, you know, the menuing

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: system and everything's the
same across multiple cameras in the series.

[Ian Landsman]: So I think that'd be super useful.
And you get a lot of links for that because

[Ian Landsman]: it's actually pretty hard to
find that. there

[Aaron]: Pretty

[Ian Landsman]: tends to

[Aaron]: hard

[Ian Landsman]: be you're

[Aaron]: to find. So

[Ian Landsman]: kind of piecing

[Aaron]: you

[Ian Landsman]: it.

[Aaron]: just went through this. So like what
part was hard for you to find? Was it concise

[Aaron]: or comprehensive or what was

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah,

[Aaron]: the part

[Ian Landsman]: because

[Aaron]: that was missing?

[Ian Landsman]: you end up take there's there
was like nobody as I found anyway, at least

[Ian Landsman]: for this particular camera that
really went through and like how to set it

[Ian Landsman]: up, especially for the streaming,
which

[Aaron]: Got

[Ian Landsman]: might be a little

[Aaron]: it.

[Ian Landsman]: different than what you're doing.
But even for the video, there was just a lot

[Ian Landsman]: of like, here's some of the
settings. But then I knew other stuff. I mean,

[Ian Landsman]: I know a little bit about it,
which helped if I

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: started from less knowledge.
I think it would have been even worse. But.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah, just, and just even things
like how do you run the power to it? Like,

[Ian Landsman]: can you, should

[Aaron]: Hmm

[Ian Landsman]: you do HDMI out or a lot of
the cameras have USB-C, which can pipe over

[Ian Landsman]: it, but there's actually a difference.
and HDMI is probably better, but not necessarily

[Ian Landsman]: always. And so there's

[Aaron]: Hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: kind of things like that in
terms of the setup, physical setup of how you're

[Ian Landsman]: gonna power it and how you're
gonna get

[Aaron]: That's

[Ian Landsman]: the

[Aaron]: interesting.

[Ian Landsman]: feed out.

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: And then also then the Sony
system, all these camera systems, the menu

[Ian Landsman]: is a disaster. So, you know,
how do you find all the little spots where

[Ian Landsman]: you need to set it up for, whether
it's changes for the continuous power or changes

[Ian Landsman]: for like what setting that should
be on for video and all

[Aaron]: a

[Ian Landsman]: that

[Aaron]: great

[Ian Landsman]: stuff.

[Aaron]: idea.

[Ian Landsman]: So just to get that initial
setup so you have something reasonable.

[Aaron]: Right.

[Ian Landsman]: And you're not, you know, some
of them have overheating issues. Is there

[Aaron]: Right.

[Ian Landsman]: certain things you have to do?
Maybe you shouldn't run it at 1080P or whatever,

[Ian Landsman]: like whatever, all the different
things to be aware of for the particular camera.

[Ian Landsman]: So you, you know, your first
run experiences, aren't you get 20 minutes

[Ian Landsman]: in and it's shutting down and,

[Aaron]: Right, in

[Ian Landsman]: or

[Aaron]: the middle

[Ian Landsman]: you're

[Aaron]: of

[Ian Landsman]: not

[Aaron]: a

[Ian Landsman]: getting the video

[Aaron]: recording session,

[Ian Landsman]: or whatever.

[Aaron]: which is super

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: frustrating.

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: Ooh,

[Ian Landsman]: So

[Aaron]: this is

[Ian Landsman]: that

[Aaron]: a

[Ian Landsman]: could

[Aaron]: good

[Ian Landsman]: be cool.

[Aaron]: idea. This is a really good idea. I
think, so one of the things I'm thinking for

[Aaron]: like, continually filling the top of
the funnel, because I want this

[Ian Landsman]: Mm.

[Aaron]: course to last forever, you know,

[Ian Landsman]: Right, yeah,

[Aaron]: as

[Ian Landsman]: why not?

[Aaron]: forever as possible.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: I'm thinking I'll do a separate YouTube
channel that is just screencasting

[Ian Landsman]: Hmm

[Aaron]: focused.

[Ian Landsman]: that makes sense

[Aaron]: And... This could be a really good
couple of videos where I synthesize all of

[Aaron]: the information about, because people
are trying to teach you how to use the camera

[Aaron]: for everything,

[Ian Landsman]: Alright.

[Aaron]: and I could synthesize all of that
into, here's how you use it just for a webcam

[Aaron]: or a screencast

[Ian Landsman]: Right?

[Aaron]: basically.

[Ian Landsman]: Yup.

[Aaron]: That is really interesting, I like
that idea. The question is, am I gonna have

[Aaron]: to buy a bunch of cameras to do it
honestly, because I don't wanna do that.

[Ian Landsman]: Well, I

[Aaron]: Hmm

[Ian Landsman]: mean, there's a bunch of services
for renting cameras. So for like 20

[Aaron]: Duh.

[Ian Landsman]: bucks, 30 bucks or whatever,
you can just like rent the camera and the lens

[Ian Landsman]: for two days, do the video,
send it

[Aaron]: Of

[Ian Landsman]: back.

[Aaron]: course,

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: of course

[Ian Landsman]: I would just,

[Aaron]: Ian,

[Ian Landsman]: there

[Aaron]: this

[Ian Landsman]: you

[Aaron]: is

[Ian Landsman]: go.

[Aaron]: why we do this.

[Ian Landsman]: There

[Aaron]: We do

[Ian Landsman]: you

[Aaron]: this

[Ian Landsman]: go.

[Aaron]: podcast for my benefit. This is amazing.
Okay, yeah, that's obvious. Yep, what is it

[Aaron]: called? There's one that's like

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah, that's a big

[Aaron]: Glass

[Ian Landsman]: one.

[Aaron]: Rent or I'm thinking of Rent the Runway,
which is different.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: I'll look it up. That's fine.

[Ian Landsman]: It

[Aaron]: Great

[Ian Landsman]: should be

[Aaron]: idea,

[Ian Landsman]: easy to find. Yeah.

[Aaron]: okay.

[Ian Landsman]: I can't remember the names,
but I know a ton of people use them. Everybody

[Ian Landsman]: seems to have pretty good results

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: with it. So I think that you're
getting like pretty, you know,

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: good, good gear and good shape.
And it'll be fine for your purposes of getting

[Ian Landsman]: set

[Aaron]: Yeah,

[Ian Landsman]: up

[Aaron]: I

[Ian Landsman]: and

[Aaron]: don't

[Ian Landsman]: stream

[Aaron]: even want

[Ian Landsman]: it.

[Aaron]: to keep the gear, so it's

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: perfect. So, okay.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah. And you only need one
lens, probably, or whatever. So.

[Aaron]: Yeah. Okay, cool.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah,

[Aaron]: That'll

[Ian Landsman]: there

[Aaron]: be

[Ian Landsman]: you

[Aaron]: fun.

[Ian Landsman]: go. There's another project
for the list.

[Aaron]: Yeah, seriously. I count this as a
sub project, so mentally this doesn't

[Ian Landsman]: Doesn't

[Aaron]: take

[Ian Landsman]: weigh you

[Aaron]: a

[Ian Landsman]: down,

[Aaron]: slot. Yeah, exactly.

[Ian Landsman]: right? Ha ha ha.

[Aaron]: I don't feel like, oh man, I got a
million. No, I only have like four things to

[Aaron]: juggle, of which subtask A is record
a million videos. So.

[Ian Landsman]: Right? I have a hard time with
that. I get down that path. This is part of

[Ian Landsman]: the stuff I've been eliminating
from

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: decisions I made pre-vacation,

[Aaron]: Yep.

[Ian Landsman]: is it's just like I get too
much stuff going and I'm not as good at that.

[Ian Landsman]: I've never been that good at
it. If I get too many balls, then I just start

[Ian Landsman]: to get like, it just weighs
on me. And then I don't do even the things

[Ian Landsman]: I need to be doing. It's just
like, oh, it's too much stress and pressure.

[Ian Landsman]: So then I gotta go back through
and be like, no, don't actually need to do

[Ian Landsman]: those things right now. Like.
It'll

[Aaron]: Yep.

[Ian Landsman]: be fine. We can wait a few months
or six months, whatever. Put it on like a separate

[Ian Landsman]: notion page for like kind of
backlog of ideas. Just

[Aaron]: Parking

[Ian Landsman]: send

[Aaron]: lot,

[Ian Landsman]: it over

[Aaron]: yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: there. So it's not like in my
day to day vision. And then, uh, yeah,

[Aaron]: Yep,

[Ian Landsman]: I

[Aaron]: you

[Ian Landsman]: got it.

[Aaron]: are

[Ian Landsman]: Got to do

[Aaron]: super

[Ian Landsman]: that.

[Aaron]: not alone. I feel the same way. I feel
like I have like a natural kind of ebb and

[Aaron]: flow cycle almost of like expand, let's
do everything. And then I

[Ian Landsman]: Right?

[Aaron]: get to like the maximum expansion and
I'm like, oh,

[Ian Landsman]: I'm sorry.

[Aaron]: this is

[Ian Landsman]: Ha

[Aaron]: too

[Ian Landsman]: ha

[Aaron]: much.

[Ian Landsman]: ha.

[Aaron]: And then I contract down and focus
on the few things that I think are most important

[Aaron]: maybe or most pressing. And

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: then that kind of just kind of ebbs
and flows over time. And I don't know if that's

[Aaron]: bad. Like I don't know if that's bad.

[Ian Landsman]: I don't know.

[Aaron]: I maybe wish I didn't get to the point
where it was like, ah, this is way too

[Ian Landsman]: It's

[Aaron]: much,

[Ian Landsman]: overwhelming.

[Aaron]: I'm gonna die, yeah. Which is

[Ian Landsman]: I do think

[Aaron]: where I am now, so.

[Ian Landsman]: there is this entrepreneurial,
I think a lot of entrepreneurs have that. issue

[Ian Landsman]: and it's like you get that little
bit of space like you actually get some space

[Ian Landsman]: and you're like I must

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: fill this space like I must
there's more things to do let's pile stuff

[Ian Landsman]: into the gap and then all of
a sudden you look around a week later you're

[Ian Landsman]: like oh I actually have tons
of stuff to do and then the thing you know

[Ian Landsman]: you have no capacity for like
when someone comes out of the blue and wants

[Ian Landsman]: to charge you two thousand dollars
for a photo

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: you used 20 years ago or like
all these you know random stuff that comes

[Ian Landsman]: up when you're running

[Ian Landsman]: even just your day job needs
you to work longer or whatever, like who knows,

[Ian Landsman]: like just having the extra capacity
to take on those unknown things. Yeah, I hit

[Ian Landsman]: that all the time where I'm
like running too close to the capacity and

[Ian Landsman]: then like something

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: happens and I'm like, oh no,
I got to deal with that and rework

[Aaron]: And then you start

[Ian Landsman]: things.

[Aaron]: actively

[Ian Landsman]: So,

[Aaron]: trying to like shed projects. You're
like,

[Ian Landsman]: right,

[Aaron]: ah, I can't do that.

[Ian Landsman]: right.

[Aaron]: I mean, Hugo designed my website, I
think back in like September or October of

[Ian Landsman]: Mmm.

[Aaron]: last year, and it's now September

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: of this year. And it was just one of
those things where at the time, I was like,

[Aaron]: yeah, hell yeah, let's freaking, let's
do a website, that seems awesome. And then

[Ian Landsman]: Right?

[Aaron]: he designed it and I was like, oh gosh,
I don't

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: have time

[Ian Landsman]: Now I have

[Aaron]: to

[Ian Landsman]: to

[Aaron]: do

[Ian Landsman]: build

[Aaron]: this.

[Ian Landsman]: this.

[Aaron]: I can't do this anymore. That's one
thing where I think I do get in trouble sometimes

[Aaron]: is I'll have like, I'll start the project
and have

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: like other people, you know, pay them,
of course, but have other people

[Ian Landsman]: Right. Yup.

[Aaron]: do parts of it. And then I'm like,
Oh no, now it's back to me. And so,

[Ian Landsman]: Yup.

[Aaron]: you know, hopefully, hopefully Hugo's
happy one to see his design out there. And

[Aaron]: two, of course I did pay him for it.
But now I'm finally like, all right, here we

[Aaron]: go. This is now it's come back around
to I have time to do this.

[Ian Landsman]: The number of people and the
amount of money I've paid for people to not

[Ian Landsman]: do the things I asked them to
do is

[Aaron]: Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe

[Ian Landsman]: completely insane. Um, yes,
I know I paid you. I'm- I'm fine with you not

[Ian Landsman]: doing it, just forget it. Like
just the, what you were gonna do and then place

[Ian Landsman]: on me. Like I'm fine just paying
you to not just take that

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: money, enjoy it. I don't even
want you to produce it. And I

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: just want to not worry about
it. So yeah, I do have had that happen numerous

[Ian Landsman]: times. So.

[Aaron]: Yeah, and it's kinda like, if they
do produce the thing, it's like, yes, I'm thrilled

[Aaron]: to death with the work you've done.
It's amazing, I

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: love it. I just, I'm gonna sit on it
for a little

[Ian Landsman]: Right?

[Aaron]: while. Sorry about that. Ha, ha, ha.

[Ian Landsman]: So

[Aaron]: But.

[Ian Landsman]: we should get the full update.
What's up with the hello query? I don't think

[Ian Landsman]: we've even talked about that
on

[Aaron]: We

[Ian Landsman]: this

[Aaron]: have

[Ian Landsman]: pod

[Aaron]: not talked

[Ian Landsman]: much,

[Aaron]: about

[Ian Landsman]: so.

[Aaron]: that in a while. So we've been doing
a push with, do you know Boris Lepkin in the

[Ian Landsman]: Hmm,

[Aaron]: Laravel community? He's the guy who
wrote

[Ian Landsman]: I

[Aaron]: Advanced

[Ian Landsman]: don't think so.

[Aaron]: Inertia.

[Ian Landsman]: Okay, yes, I know that.

[Aaron]: So he's the inertia type script.

[Ian Landsman]: Mm-hmm.

[Aaron]: He's a wizard. Like I thought for a
long time that I was a really good developer

[Aaron]: and I think I am. I'm

[Ian Landsman]: Right?

[Aaron]: not as good as Boris. Like

[Ian Landsman]: No, right?

[Aaron]: Boris is a gosh dang machine.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: And it also happens that he's like
really, really good at the front end. Um,

[Ian Landsman]: Mm.

[Aaron]: and I'm, I'm okay at front end, but
in terms of like, all right, let's wire up

[Aaron]: inertia and view all together with
typed stuff on the backend, like I don't, I

[Aaron]: don't hold a candle to Boris.

[Ian Landsman]: Alright.

[Aaron]: So anyway, we've hired Boris to help
us build out some of that stuff. Um,

[Ian Landsman]: Awesome

[Aaron]: because like I said, I got to this
point where I was like, Oh, this is too much.

[Aaron]: Um,

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: And we were just moving too slowly
because I just, I was also having a hard time.

[Aaron]: Like the project's been going on for
a thousand years,

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: um, and losing some of that motivation
for that side. And so

[Ian Landsman]: Mm-hmm

[Aaron]: bringing Boris on to like, just plow
through some tasks has been really awesome.

[Aaron]: So that's been going well. We're reaching
the point where it's like, all right, let's,

[Aaron]: let's onboard some customers here.

[Ian Landsman]: Oh

[Aaron]: And

[Ian Landsman]: wow.

[Aaron]: so. Yeah, Colleen and I are talking
about like, okay, we're about to approach the

[Aaron]: starting line of this project. Like,
even

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: though it feels like this should be
the finish line, we're approaching the starting

[Aaron]: line. Let's talk about like what that's
going to look like going forward.

[Ian Landsman]: Yo.

[Aaron]: And so there's still some, you know,
there's still some decisions and stuff to be

[Aaron]: made there. But just having someone
else that's really, really talented help me

[Aaron]: on the development side has been like
a huge boost in terms of like, like emotional

[Aaron]: fortitude to

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: have somebody else picking up some
of that slack. So that's been great. So thanks,

[Aaron]: Boris. Thanks.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: Thanks for being thanks for being a
10x developer. That's amazing.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah,

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: I think there's getting to shipping
is so important. And like, that's something

[Ian Landsman]: I haven't always factored enough
in. And actually with a huge new project that

[Ian Landsman]: we'll talk about on here eventually.
Um, I've been reworking a lot of that so that

[Ian Landsman]: to try to get to that shipping
part faster,

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: um, and, uh, Yeah. So I think,
uh, I think that's super important. Like six,

[Ian Landsman]: when you're just on that march
of like the

[Aaron]: Brutal.

[Ian Landsman]: never ending marches, it is
very difficult to stay motivated and even

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: to remember what you were trying
to do at

[Aaron]: Yep,

[Ian Landsman]: times and

[Aaron]: yep,

[Ian Landsman]: things like that.

[Aaron]: yep.

[Ian Landsman]: And so I think having that,
um, yeah, whether it's help or just reorganizing,

[Ian Landsman]: I think there's actually a Jason
Cohen has a really, uh, interesting blog post

[Ian Landsman]: about this where. kind of indirectly
about this, but he was more talking about like

[Ian Landsman]: MVPs and how he doesn't like
MVPs.

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: But more about the idea than
doing something where it's just smaller but

[Ian Landsman]: complete so that

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: like even if you then don't
add on to whatever or even if it takes longer

[Ian Landsman]: than to get to the full vision,
it's not that you're shipping this kind of

[Ian Landsman]: junky doesn't even work for
the customer tool. It's just that you're shipping

[Ian Landsman]: something that is small but
that there is a use set and people could love

[Ian Landsman]: that small feature set and then
you can either build on

[Aaron]: iterate

[Ian Landsman]: it or

[Aaron]: off

[Ian Landsman]: not

[Aaron]: of

[Ian Landsman]: build

[Aaron]: that,

[Ian Landsman]: on

[Aaron]: yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: it, but that different take
on it, which I kind of like that idea of it

[Ian Landsman]: as well.

[Aaron]: Yeah, yeah, and I feel like there is,
there is like a big emotional win from having

[Aaron]: that in people's hands. So that you
can start to get that like, that, you know,

[Aaron]: that dopamine from people actually
using the thing instead

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: of just sitting quietly alone working
on

[Ian Landsman]: some

[Aaron]: it all the time.

[Ian Landsman]: money changing hands and all
that

[Aaron]: Yeah,

[Ian Landsman]: stuff.

[Aaron]: exactly.

[Ian Landsman]: It's

[Aaron]: So

[Ian Landsman]: always.

[Aaron]: when you mentioned it in passing, you
had a big secret project we're going to talk

[Aaron]: about at some point.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah, we'll talk about the big
secret project

[Aaron]: Alright,

[Ian Landsman]: at some point.

[Aaron]: I

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah,

[Aaron]: love it. Okay,

[Ian Landsman]: we're not there

[Aaron]: so

[Ian Landsman]: yet.

[Aaron]: y'all stay

[Ian Landsman]: We're not

[Aaron]: tuned,

[Ian Landsman]: there yet.

[Aaron]: come back. Come back

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: next week and we'll probably not talk
about it then, but keep coming

[Ian Landsman]: We're

[Aaron]: back

[Ian Landsman]: not being

[Aaron]: and

[Ian Landsman]: next

[Aaron]: maybe

[Ian Landsman]: week, but

[Aaron]: eventually we will

[Ian Landsman]: eventually,

[Aaron]: talk about it.

[Ian Landsman]: eventually we'll get to it.
We're definitely gonna talk about it, but not

[Ian Landsman]: yet.

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: We have lots of other stuff
to talk about though.

[Aaron]: Let's

[Ian Landsman]: So

[Aaron]: do

[Ian Landsman]: it's

[Aaron]: it.

[Ian Landsman]: no worries. What else we got
here? So... All right, so what about, well,

[Ian Landsman]: all right, we can talk about
this. So I posted about year of Livewire. What

[Ian Landsman]: do you think

[Aaron]: You

[Ian Landsman]: about

[Aaron]: did.

[Ian Landsman]: that? I think 2024 is the year
of Livewire, is the year of filament, is the

[Ian Landsman]: year of the Livewire ecosystem.
To

[Aaron]: Okay,

[Ian Landsman]: me, this

[Aaron]: so

[Ian Landsman]: is gonna be a big Livewire

[Aaron]: before

[Ian Landsman]: year.

[Aaron]: I tell

[Ian Landsman]: All

[Aaron]: you any thoughts, tell me

[Ian Landsman]: right.

[Aaron]: what you were doing and what kind of
prompted the Year of Livewire tweet.

[Ian Landsman]: Well, I've just been super deep
in LiveWire again. Um, so sort of a long story,

[Ian Landsman]: but the short version is I plan
to do a bunch of stuff with LiveWire three

[Ian Landsman]: last year when it was, you

[Aaron]: Okay. Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: know, sort of supposed to come
out and actually, you know, did some sponsoring

[Ian Landsman]: to help do some of that. Whatever.
It just took longer as these software projects

[Ian Landsman]: do whatever. So it's fun. So
that's this is where I kind of then got over

[Ian Landsman]: towards into the React and all
that, which we've touched on a

[Aaron]: Mmm.

[Ian Landsman]: little bit here. I was like,
well, I never looked at inertia. Never looked

[Ian Landsman]: at React. Let me go off in that
direction for a bit. So I went over there,

[Ian Landsman]: learned React, played with inertia
and all that stuff. So then LiveWire 3 comes

[Ian Landsman]: out and. Filament comes out
and there's a bunch of other, you know, projects

[Ian Landsman]: all along the ecosystem. The
Spatty stuff's all being updated to LiveWire

[Ian Landsman]: 3. I know the Laravel Core stuff
that uses LiveWire has been updated or will

[Ian Landsman]: be updated

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm

[Ian Landsman]: soon. So I've been back in LiveWire
3 streets. I'm like, all right, let me get

[Ian Landsman]: in here since this was kind
of my original plan. And we use LiveWire for

[Ian Landsman]: other stuff anyways. So Lara
Jobs uses it and the store thing that's launching

[Ian Landsman]: today for Help Spot uses it
and

[Aaron]: Nice.

[Ian Landsman]: whatever. So we use LiveWire
a bunch of places, but. And I just love it.

[Ian Landsman]: I'm not even like super, super
deep on it yet, but I've been loving all the

[Ian Landsman]: changes. I just think it's like
so obviously like the foundation to then build

[Ian Landsman]: on for world domination. And

[Aaron]: Oh wow.

[Ian Landsman]: so yeah, I'm all about the world
domination. And

[Aaron]: Yeah, me too.

[Ian Landsman]: I just think this is like, it's
so integrated with Laravel in the way that

[Ian Landsman]: none of the other things can
ever be, right? And so, yeah, it's just great.

[Ian Landsman]: And I think what the film in...
guys are doing is great and how they've expanded

[Ian Landsman]: that to where you can build.
It's not just like an admin panel anymore.

[Ian Landsman]: It's, you know, got bigger ambitions
than that. And you can really use it to build

[Ian Landsman]: other sorts of apps and things.
Um, and I mean, filament sort of a little bit

[Ian Landsman]: intense, uh, and, and

[Aaron]: Yeah,

[Ian Landsman]: heavy

[Aaron]: so

[Ian Landsman]: to get started

[Aaron]: talk

[Ian Landsman]: with,

[Aaron]: to me about

[Ian Landsman]: but.

[Aaron]: Filament. Cause I thought it was an
admin panel, but now I'm seeing people like

[Aaron]: you say, it's like application builders.
So like,

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: what is the scope? What is the scope
there?

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah, I mean, the scope is kind
of massive. So I mean, it's definitely where

[Ian Landsman]: you could use it now for, and
maybe you always could to some degree, but

[Ian Landsman]: I think it's been fleshed out
a bit more where it's not just like admin for

[Ian Landsman]: the, like the literal admins
of the

[Aaron]: Uh huh.

[Ian Landsman]: system to manage a SaaS app,
but you could definitely use it whether, it's

[Ian Landsman]: gonna be a little hard to explain,
but they have this kind of a panel, which is

[Ian Landsman]: sort of like an admin dashboard,
but you could use it for actually the UI of

[Ian Landsman]: your app now with what

[Aaron]: interesting.

[Ian Landsman]: they've done with it. or part
of the UI, like maybe you have like, you know,

[Ian Landsman]: like a user area, but then there
might be other areas that don't necessarily

[Ian Landsman]: use filament for like the front,
let's say that maybe is

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: more custom or things like that.
So you could mix and match. You could also

[Ian Landsman]: just use the individual components
like the table builder. Like I just saw like

[Ian Landsman]: Spatty's using the table builder

[Aaron]: Yeah, I've

[Ian Landsman]: in

[Aaron]: seen the table builder.

[Ian Landsman]: the media library, I think.
Yeah, and the form builder and things like

[Ian Landsman]: that.

[Aaron]: Uh huh.

[Ian Landsman]: So. And, you know, it's basically
the missing component library of the Laravel

[Ian Landsman]: LiveWire kind of

[Aaron]: I see.

[Ian Landsman]: ecosystem, in terms of if you
want the like fully integrated components.

[Ian Landsman]: Now, I still don't think they're
all the way, and they're definitely not all

[Ian Landsman]: the way, to sort of the full-on
polishness of like the React ecosystem.

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: But I do think it's gotten a
lot closer and is a lot better. And then you're

[Ian Landsman]: making different trade-offs.
Maybe it's not quite as uber polished as that

[Ian Landsman]: in areas, but then on the flip
side, it's super tied into Laravel and

[Aaron]: Right? Hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: it understands Laravel. And
you can just totally ignore a whole bunch of

[Ian Landsman]: annoying kind of API validation,

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: all that stuff, networking communication
type things because it all just magically works.

[Ian Landsman]: So... Yeah, so I don't know,

[Aaron]: So

[Ian Landsman]: I think,

[Aaron]: are you using

[Ian Landsman]: hmm.

[Aaron]: filament for anything at this point?

[Ian Landsman]: So I'm not, well, we use actually
one of the components like the table builder

[Ian Landsman]: in the new

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: store. But I am evaluating for
a super big secret project, possibly using

[Ian Landsman]: it pretty heavily. So

[Aaron]: Okay.

[Ian Landsman]: yeah, so that's what I've been
kind of digging into that stuff. But yeah,

[Ian Landsman]: I just think it's like all reaches
place. I think it's all gonna get a lot better

[Ian Landsman]: too. Like they're coming out
with like, like Filman's the lead designer,

[Ian Landsman]: I think he is at Filman is coming

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: out with like a theme package
so that you can have some different styles

[Ian Landsman]: in there. If you want something
like a little cleaner than the default, things

[Ian Landsman]: like that.

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: And yeah, there's just a lot
of activity on the LiveWire end and the Filman

[Ian Landsman]: end with people, you know, doing
a lot of active dev work around it. So

[Aaron]: It does

[Ian Landsman]: I expect

[Aaron]: seem to

[Ian Landsman]: everything

[Aaron]: be

[Ian Landsman]: to

[Aaron]: a

[Ian Landsman]: get a lot

[Aaron]: very

[Ian Landsman]: better.

[Aaron]: active project.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah,

[Aaron]: It seems

[Ian Landsman]: yeah,

[Aaron]: like

[Ian Landsman]: film

[Aaron]: there are

[Ian Landsman]: is

[Aaron]: a lot

[Ian Landsman]: very

[Aaron]: of

[Ian Landsman]: active.

[Aaron]: people working on it and there's a
lot of motion on it and a lot of people are

[Aaron]: like contributing to it. Is there a
paid component? How do these people make money?

[Ian Landsman]: Uh, filament, I don't believe
has a directly paid component. No, um, you

[Ian Landsman]: can sponsor Dan

[Aaron]: Got

[Ian Landsman]: who

[Aaron]: it.

[Ian Landsman]: kind of runs it. Um, and

[Aaron]: Oh,

[Ian Landsman]: same

[Aaron]: and Dan

[Ian Landsman]: with lot.

[Aaron]: is working for a company, right?

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah, I think he works for Kershbaum.
Um,

[Aaron]: Yeah, and he

[Ian Landsman]: so

[Aaron]: works

[Ian Landsman]: I think he's like

[Aaron]: on

[Ian Landsman]: semi sponsored

[Aaron]: film. Yeah,

[Ian Landsman]: in that way. I don't

[Aaron]: okay.

[Ian Landsman]: know exactly the exact deal
there, but I do think they do give him at least

[Ian Landsman]: some time to work on it is my
impression. Um, And then, you know, Caleb has

[Ian Landsman]: the kind of Livewire, the Alpine
components, I

[Aaron]: Right,

[Ian Landsman]: know he sells,

[Aaron]: yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: and he has a lot of GitHub sponsors,
although

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: GitHub has kind of messed that
up a little bit

[Aaron]: They have,

[Ian Landsman]: on the

[Aaron]: yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: sponsorship front. But and Livewire
also has a paid support channel now, too, if

[Ian Landsman]: you want

[Aaron]: That's

[Ian Landsman]: to get

[Aaron]: right.

[Ian Landsman]: paid support for like if you
have a big Livewire project and want to be

[Ian Landsman]: able to have kind of direct
access to the core brain trust, then you can.

[Ian Landsman]: can pay

[Aaron]: That's

[Ian Landsman]: them

[Aaron]: right.

[Ian Landsman]: for that, which is a great program
too. So yeah, I mean, all these things, I think,

[Ian Landsman]: it's like every open source
project, it's like how do you

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: monetize it to kind

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: of survive and pay the bills
so

[Aaron]: Tough,

[Ian Landsman]: you can build

[Aaron]: tough question.

[Ian Landsman]: the open source thing people
want. But.

[Aaron]: Okay, so Livewire 3 plus ecosystem
plus tight integration with Laravel. That's

[Aaron]: why you think 2024 is the year of Livewire.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah, I just think with this
new foundation, so there's always been a little

[Ian Landsman]: bit of rough edges to LiveWire

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: when you get in there and build
something more complicated where there can

[Ian Landsman]: be just more difficult error
states or a lot of subtle things you have to

[Ian Landsman]: be aware of

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: to make that work. And so...
I think that was always a little bit tricky.

[Ian Landsman]: Over for pages with lots of
components, there'd be like a lot

[Aaron]: Right?

[Ian Landsman]: of network stuff going on and
things like that. And a lot of that stuff is,

[Ian Landsman]: I mean, almost all of it really
has been, you know, made a lot better fixed

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: if it was like kind of more
bugs or more sensible defaults or optimized

[Ian Landsman]: in terms of like the networking.
So like the foundation is super strong. And

[Ian Landsman]: I think... with filament on
top, then you just have this nice way to actually

[Ian Landsman]: get started with,

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: bam, I can like build out an
idea really quickly, which I know has always

[Ian Landsman]: been also kind of one of Taylor's
core tenants, so to speak,

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: with Laravel is like, can you
get to building something, you know, pretty

[Ian Landsman]: quickly, which why Laravel always
does such a great job with, you know, the other

[Ian Landsman]: elements of like. Uh, you know,
authentication and having all those jet stream

[Ian Landsman]: and all those things to make
it really easy to just get all that boiler

[Ian Landsman]: plate stuff that is terrible
to build kind of out of the way right at the

[Ian Landsman]: beginning and Laravel just can
give you that. So, so yeah, I don't know. I

[Ian Landsman]: just think, uh, you know, you
know, I now having just gone through all the

[Ian Landsman]: react stuff too, it's like,
you know, even with inertia. It's still, you

[Ian Landsman]: know, it's still JavaScript,
right?

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: Like

[Aaron]: Yeah,

[Ian Landsman]: ultimately,

[Aaron]: got him. Got him. Welcome

[Ian Landsman]: it's

[Aaron]: home,

[Ian Landsman]: still JavaScript.

[Aaron]: baby.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah, I'm

[Aaron]: You're

[Ian Landsman]: back

[Aaron]: back.

[Ian Landsman]: home.

[Aaron]: Woo.

[Ian Landsman]: So.

[Aaron]: It's still JavaScript.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah, it's still JavaScript.
And it's like, if you don't have to be in there

[Ian Landsman]: or if something can make it
nice for you so that you're in there but you

[Ian Landsman]: don't have to really know too
much about it except for when you really need

[Ian Landsman]: to. And then LiveWire does a
great job with that. It's all integrated with

[Ian Landsman]: Alpine like fully now. So it
used to be the sort of like they weren't actually

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: one in the same but now it's
essentially like they're one in the same. And

[Ian Landsman]: so you can use Alpine, which
I like a lot and they can cross communicate

[Ian Landsman]: really easily where you need
to. for those times we do need to do something

[Ian Landsman]: JavaScripty that's literally
only in the browser, then great, like you can

[Ian Landsman]: do those weirdo JavaScripty
things

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: and sync it up with LiveWire
if you need to and have that all work magically.

[Ian Landsman]: So yeah,

[Aaron]: I buy it. I buy

[Ian Landsman]: there

[Aaron]: it. I'm with

[Ian Landsman]: you

[Aaron]: you.

[Ian Landsman]: go.

[Aaron]: So I think I think Livewire 3 is like
a step change, like a fundamental

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: improvement over Livewire 2. Just I
was never a heavy Livewire user and I'm still

[Aaron]: not actually. But I have used Livewire
2 and I've used Livewire 3 and I do think all

[Aaron]: of the time and energy that Caleb put
into Livewire 3 was worth it because

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah,

[Aaron]: I think

[Ian Landsman]: totally

[Aaron]: I think

[Ian Landsman]: agree.

[Aaron]: a lot of a lot of the like I feel like
a lot of the drive-by criticisms of LiveWire

[Aaron]: 2 was around performance and requests
and that kind of stuff.

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: And I feel like Caleb went to the nth
degree trying to solve some of the batching

[Aaron]: and like you said, tight integration
with Alpine. So you can do some stuff that

[Aaron]: is strictly front end, but is still
fully integrated to LiveWire such that when

[Aaron]: you do send a request, like it all
goes together.

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: And so I think I think my point of
view on LiveWire is, I actually don't mind

[Aaron]: writing JavaScript that much because
I write view and not react. Little barb to

[Aaron]: react

[Ian Landsman]: I'm

[Aaron]: there.

[Ian Landsman]: not going to view

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: that for sure,

[Aaron]: Okay.

[Ian Landsman]: but we're not talking about
that again.

[Aaron]: Yeah. But what I do love about LiveWire
is just the network chasm has been crossed

[Aaron]: and you don't have to worry about,
I think you mentioned like APIs and validation

[Aaron]: at some point. Like it's just all,
it's just all there. Like the front

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: end and back end. is handled, like
the communication between the two is handled

[Aaron]: for you. And that is just, it's just
a delight to use to not think about like, all

[Aaron]: right, how am I going to serialize
this and send it across the wire and validate

[Aaron]: it and send some response back and
respond to it. Like Jason wired up my new website

[Aaron]: and there's like a listing of content
and you can filter between like videos and

[Aaron]: articles and talks and that kind of
thing. And he did it all in LiveWire

[Aaron]: Is that the single page one

[Ian Landsman]: Yep.

[Aaron]: or is Volt the single page one? Which
one's the page router?

[Ian Landsman]: Mm-hmm. Well, the Volt is the
single page live wire component

[Aaron]: Yes,

[Ian Landsman]: and then, yeah.

[Aaron]: Folio's the page routing. Okay,

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: so he did it all with volt style LiveWire.

[Ian Landsman]: Mm-hmm.

[Aaron]: And so you just open up this content
list.blade.php and like you

[Ian Landsman]: Alright.

[Aaron]: see a little bit of LiveWire at the
top and then the view or the template at the

[Aaron]: bottom. It's like, oh,

[Ian Landsman]: there.

[Aaron]: I get this.

[Ian Landsman]: Right. Ha ha ha.

[Aaron]: This has like collapsed a level of
mental complexity in my mind

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: and I really dig it. So I do think,
I do think. ecosystem is developing. I think

[Aaron]: all the work that Filament is doing
is great. I think also Filo, everything that

[Aaron]: Filo touches

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah,

[Aaron]: in

[Ian Landsman]: I feel

[Aaron]: the Livewire

[Ian Landsman]: that.

[Aaron]: ecosystem is incredibly high quality
and he's got, I don't know all of his projects,

[Aaron]: but he's got a lot of stuff going on
over there. But I could see it. I could see

[Aaron]: 2024 being the year of Livewire and
hopefully with like the... the PHP resurgence

[Aaron]: and me trying to convince people that
PHP

[Ian Landsman]: Yes,

[Aaron]: is good.

[Ian Landsman]: get

[Aaron]: Hopefully

[Ian Landsman]: them over to team effort.

[Aaron]: we get some momentum going here.

[Ian Landsman]: Well, the other thing too, I
think that's huge for LiveWire is this sort

[Ian Landsman]: of, that it's been fully brought
into the fold under the Laravel domain. So

[Ian Landsman]: it's like livewire.laravel.com.
So that's always the other thing is like, you

[Ian Landsman]: know, you can drop LiveWire
in for sure and just like use it here and there,

[Ian Landsman]: but also it's. You know, I think
ideally in some ways like you'd be, especially

[Ian Landsman]: in three, where there's like
kind of the single page mode where it can

[Aaron]: Yeah,

[Ian Landsman]: really

[Aaron]: which

[Ian Landsman]: be preloading things

[Aaron]: is super

[Ian Landsman]: and like,

[Aaron]: cool.

[Ian Landsman]: so you can just have it be everything
basically. But that's a huge commitment. And

[Ian Landsman]: obviously everybody's always
scared about like, well, this is like kind

[Ian Landsman]: of a thing. It's run by, you
know, one

[Aaron]: You

[Ian Landsman]: or

[Aaron]: all right?

[Ian Landsman]: two people. Like, do I want
to have my entire app built on this thing?

[Ian Landsman]: And so, you know, being in the
official Laravel fold just has that extra level

[Ian Landsman]: of assurance that, you know
what, like the Laravel in-crew is going to

[Ian Landsman]: take care of this project, like
no matter what LiveWire is here to stay and

[Ian Landsman]: it's going to get better and
it's going to be either even more. integrated

[Ian Landsman]: into Laravel core in the future
in different ways. And so, and same with volt

[Ian Landsman]: being released by Laravel Inc.
So you have that support there. So it's just

[Ian Landsman]: like everything's coming. Everybody's
on board with LiveWire that this is how. This

[Ian Landsman]: is like the default way to me
to write a Laravel app. It's like.

[Aaron]: Woo,

[Ian Landsman]: it's

[Aaron]: that's

[Ian Landsman]: LiveWire.

[Aaron]: spicy.

[Ian Landsman]: And then like then there's,
you know, obviously there's other reasons why

[Ian Landsman]: you might use

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: ReactorView or just Blade in
a super simple scenario, whatever, but kind

[Ian Landsman]: of your main line, I'm building
a real app that's significant in size. I feel

[Ian Landsman]: like LiveWire is the front end
technology you're looking at for that on Laravel.

[Ian Landsman]: And that's what kind of where
things are going in my mind. So anyway, so

[Ian Landsman]: I think all of that kind of
comes together to be the year of LiveWire.

[Ian Landsman]: So

[Aaron]: I

[Ian Landsman]: we'll

[Aaron]: like

[Ian Landsman]: see, yeah.

[Aaron]: it. You want to hear my spicy take
on the

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: sub domain sub domain thing?

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah, sub the main

[Aaron]: I

[Ian Landsman]: thing.

[Aaron]: want there to be inertia.laravelle.com
too. And I

[Ian Landsman]: Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Aaron]: know I know that inertia is like all
things to all people. A little Bible reference

[Aaron]: there. But I know

[Ian Landsman]: Right?

[Aaron]: that inertia has all these different
frameworks.

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: I want I want it to be first party

[Ian Landsman]: to be

[Aaron]: Laravel.

[Ian Landsman]: in the fold,

[Aaron]: Yes,

[Ian Landsman]: yeah.

[Aaron]: I want it to be in the fold, fully
adopted. And I know that it's like feature

[Aaron]: complete or whatever, but I just want
it to be more specific to Laravel and maybe

[Aaron]: like, sure, continue on with the other
frameworks, you know, bless their hearts. But

[Aaron]: like, I want it to be more specific
to Laravel.

[Ian Landsman]: Well, this is a very interesting
point because this is actually, um, one of

[Ian Landsman]: the things I hit with inertia
and now it's been like two months, so I don't

[Ian Landsman]: even remember the exact details,
but basically

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: I hit a thing where like, I
thought it should be doing something a little

[Ian Landsman]: bit differently and I wish I
could remember the details, but I literally

[Ian Landsman]: don't even remember the details,

[Aaron]: This is

[Ian Landsman]: but

[Aaron]: gonna be a good one. This is gonna
be

[Ian Landsman]: yeah,

[Aaron]: good content. Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: but, but that's not really the
point. The point is that like, that it's like,

[Ian Landsman]: everybody's like, yeah, it's
done. It's featured complete. And I'm like,

[Ian Landsman]: well, but like. here's the

[Aaron]: I know.

[Ian Landsman]: thing of how it's handling something
like across the wire that like, I feel like

[Ian Landsman]: it should be doing a little
bit differently. That would be easier to then

[Ian Landsman]: manage. I believe it was like

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: on the Laravel side, it could
be doing something a little differently to

[Ian Landsman]: be better. And everybody's like,
no, it's feature complete. And I'm like, I

[Ian Landsman]: kind of get where they're coming
from. That's like,

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: well, like, yes, like maybe
like literally the wire. protocol

[Aaron]: Protocol,

[Ian Landsman]: of it is

[Aaron]: yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: feature complete, but I feel
like there's these other maybe rough edges

[Ian Landsman]: and I'm poking around, other
people seem to have the same rough edges

[Aaron]: Yep.

[Ian Landsman]: and things. And I'm like, I
don't know, like then I do, I wanna be on the

[Ian Landsman]: thing that's like feature complete.
Like what's, where is this software that's

[Ian Landsman]: done? Like I'm dying to find
the done software. I've

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: never had done software ever.
I feel like that's not really a thing. And

[Ian Landsman]: so that it's done feels a little
anti-me, whereas like LiveWire is like, okay,

[Ian Landsman]: there's all this activity. I
know

[Aaron]: Yep,

[Ian Landsman]: Caleb's

[Aaron]: yep,

[Ian Landsman]: super

[Aaron]: yep.

[Ian Landsman]: building it out. And it's like,
the thing that's moving forward and is not

[Ian Landsman]: feature complete since I don't
know what that means in software exactly

[Aaron]: I know.

[Ian Landsman]: really so anyway that's kind
of where I'm at so I agree like I would love

[Ian Landsman]: it to see I think whether I'm
using it or not it would be awesome if it was

[Ian Landsman]: Sort of fully, I think it has
been like sort of mostly adopted, but yeah,

[Aaron]: I

[Ian Landsman]: it's

[Aaron]: think

[Ian Landsman]: definitely

[Aaron]: it has,

[Ian Landsman]: not official

[Aaron]: yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: official. And so, and I don't
know if Taylor's inclined to like put a bunch

[Ian Landsman]: of work into it and things like
that, especially since it isn't like just a

[Ian Landsman]: Laravel thing. It's sort of

[Aaron]: Right?

[Ian Landsman]: has to then maintain the Ruby
version and I think

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: there's whatever other random
frameworks it supports. So

[Aaron]: Yeah, there's all kinds.

[Ian Landsman]: yeah.

[Aaron]: I wonder if there's an opportunity
for someone with good taste to like build on

[Aaron]: top of inertia that is Laravel specific.

[Ian Landsman]: I think there is a project where
someone forked it and was doing a lot of the

[Ian Landsman]: stuff

[Aaron]: Yeah,

[Ian Landsman]: that

[Aaron]: I remember

[Ian Landsman]: people have

[Aaron]: that.

[Ian Landsman]: been kind of complaining about,
but I don't know where

[Aaron]: I don't

[Ian Landsman]: that

[Aaron]: think it went

[Ian Landsman]: stands.

[Aaron]: very far.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah, so that's the thing. It's
like to get that momentum is so hard in open

[Ian Landsman]: source to,

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: like you can fork anything obviously,
but can you then like build up the crew around

[Aaron]: Yeah,

[Ian Landsman]: it who

[Aaron]: exactly.

[Ian Landsman]: are interested in participating
in it

[Aaron]: Oh,

[Ian Landsman]: is

[Aaron]: you know

[Ian Landsman]: much

[Aaron]: who should

[Ian Landsman]: harder.

[Aaron]: do this is Boris. Genius,

[Ian Landsman]: There you go.

[Aaron]: genius

[Ian Landsman]: More work

[Aaron]: machine

[Ian Landsman]: for Boris.

[Aaron]: Boris. Yeah,

[Ian Landsman]: Maybe

[Aaron]: Boris,

[Ian Landsman]: Hello

[Aaron]: if

[Ian Landsman]: Query

[Aaron]: you're listening,

[Ian Landsman]: takes

[Aaron]: you

[Ian Landsman]: it over.

[Aaron]: should do this. Yeah,

[Ian Landsman]: There you go.

[Aaron]: yeah, we should definitely take on
more. That's a good idea. Okay, Year of LiveWire,

[Aaron]: I buy it. Good,

[Ian Landsman]: Alright.

[Aaron]: good, good segment there. I think I
wanna talk about LinkedIn.

[Ian Landsman]: Oh, going from the new school
to the old school.

[Aaron]: Not terrible, like actually

[Ian Landsman]: Question

[Aaron]: kinda

[Ian Landsman]: mark?

[Aaron]: good, yeah. Um, okay,

[Ian Landsman]: Well,

[Aaron]: so

[Ian Landsman]: good is far, but let's hear
your take on it.

[Aaron]: here's... I said not terrible. Yeah,
I maybe wrote down good, but I said not terrible.

[Aaron]: So historically, here's what I've thought
about LinkedIn. LinkedIn

[Ian Landsman]: Right?

[Aaron]: is a place where you go to tell made-up
inspiring stories about how wonderful you are,

[Aaron]: right? So like,

[Ian Landsman]: Mm-hmm.

[Aaron]: I'm walking to a job interview and
there's a dog that needed water and I gave

[Aaron]: it water and I got to the interview
and the dog was the Like wow,

[Ian Landsman]: I'm

[Aaron]: that's

[Ian Landsman]: sorry.

[Aaron]: amazing. That's incredible. It's like
that's how I viewed LinkedIn forever

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: It's cringe. It's terrible. It's corporate
speak. It's nothing and to be fair. There's

[Aaron]: a lot of that still there But I went
over and posted some stuff on LinkedIn. I think

[Aaron]: the one that really Surprised me was
there's a PHP developers group over there and

[Aaron]: I went and posted my PHP doesn't suck
anymore video and it got like 400 reactions,

[Aaron]: I think is what

[Ian Landsman]: Mm-hmm.

[Aaron]: they call it, several dozen comments
and like 30,000 views of the post, not the

[Aaron]: video,

[Ian Landsman]: All

[Aaron]: so

[Ian Landsman]: right.

[Aaron]: like 30,000 impressions

[Ian Landsman]: Wow.

[Aaron]: on this LinkedIn post. And I was like,
who is active over here? And I think that's

[Aaron]: indicative of my small mind is like,
I only see

[Ian Landsman]: Hahaha.

[Aaron]: Twitter as social media, but there's
a whole

[Ian Landsman]: Right?

[Aaron]: world out there.

[Ian Landsman]: Yep.

[Aaron]: And so I've started posting a little
bit more a little bit more content over there.

[Aaron]: And I think one of my rules is always
gonna be yourself. And so I'm not doing like

[Aaron]: the, you know, the cringe business
content. I'm just basically

[Ian Landsman]: Mm-hmm.

[Aaron]: saying the same things I would say
on Twitter. And I've noticed that it's getting

[Aaron]: a lot of, like a lot of traction

[Ian Landsman]: Hmm.

[Aaron]: and I'm super surprised. And so I tweeted
something like, you know, LinkedIn might be

[Aaron]: a viable place to hang. And you said
something like, yeah, it's always been pretty

[Aaron]: good. Where, what have I been missing?

[Ian Landsman]: Well, I don't know. I said something
along those lines, but really, I

[Aaron]: You're

[Ian Landsman]: mean,

[Aaron]: really walking back the good

[Ian Landsman]: I'm

[Aaron]: thing.

[Ian Landsman]: walking back

[Aaron]: You're...

[Ian Landsman]: on that because,

[Aaron]: You don't want to be on the record
as saying it's good. Ha ha.

[Ian Landsman]: yeah, well, not that it's just
so it's very interesting. First of all, that

[Ian Landsman]: you even had a more sort of
a deeper understanding of it than I did until

[Ian Landsman]: like maybe a year or two ago
when I started relooking to it again is more

[Ian Landsman]: like, I literally just thought
it was a directory of corporate

[Aaron]: Hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: people.

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: Like and I was on there and
occasionally people would be like, you know,

[Ian Landsman]: can we connect to you or whatever
they called

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: it. And I would just go through
like once a year and like check all the little

[Ian Landsman]: check boxes for the hundred
people who asked to be connected and I would

[Ian Landsman]: let them be connected and then
I wouldn't come back for a year. And I know

[Ian Landsman]: you could in-mail. And so I
was like, okay, well, I guess people are over

[Ian Landsman]: there in-mailing each other
and like, whatever, fine. But then like recently,

[Ian Landsman]: I don't know if it's like the
fall of the, you know, kind of the semi fall

[Aaron]: Hmm

[Ian Landsman]: from grace of Twitter, we ignited
it, or this has always been going on, so maybe

[Ian Landsman]: somebody can tell us the history,
but then I was like, Oh, there's like actually

[Ian Landsman]: people like, I didn't even know
about the boss dog story. Like, I just thought

[Ian Landsman]: there was like nothing going
on there, but there's actually people posting

[Ian Landsman]: stuff there, like

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: Twitter ish social media, like
fashion. And I was like, Oh, wow. And so then,

[Ian Landsman]: yeah, like then looking around
a little more, everybody's like, yeah. Of course,

[Ian Landsman]: like LinkedIn's like the best
place to post your stuff. And I'm like, really?

[Ian Landsman]: Like, I don't even think, I
can't even think of LinkedIn. Like anytime

[Aaron]: Unfathomable.

[Ian Landsman]: I go to say anything in a social
context, I never consider LinkedIn. I never

[Ian Landsman]: think

[Aaron]: Yes.

[Ian Landsman]: about it. I've been recently
trying to make myself think about it unsuccessfully,

[Ian Landsman]: but I'm going to keep trying
because I do think, I mean, it makes sense.

[Ian Landsman]: It's like, especially if you're
on the angle of. you know, the more businessy

[Ian Landsman]: angle where I'm trying

[Aaron]: Right.

[Ian Landsman]: to get

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: my name out there for my products
or services or whatever. Well, like just talking

[Ian Landsman]: to pure business people probably
makes more sense than just the randos on

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm

[Ian Landsman]: Twitter. Right? But yeah, I
don't know. There is, have you solved this

[Ian Landsman]: barrier? Like to me, there's
things I still don't even understand. Like

[Ian Landsman]: you can be followed, but that's
different than the thing

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: with the check mark. And I don't
understand. I guess you could just follow me

[Ian Landsman]: without the check mark. And
these are

[Aaron]: Correct.

[Ian Landsman]: two separate systems, I

[Aaron]: You

[Ian Landsman]: guess.

[Aaron]: can like

[Ian Landsman]: I

[Aaron]: you

[Ian Landsman]: don't

[Aaron]: can

[Ian Landsman]: know,

[Aaron]: like

[Ian Landsman]: the whole thing's

[Aaron]: turn

[Ian Landsman]: weird.

[Aaron]: on I think you can turn on creator
mode or like something

[Ian Landsman]: Okay.

[Aaron]: like that on LinkedIn and that allows
you to have followers and then

[Ian Landsman]: Mmm.

[Aaron]: you can have the traditional like connections
where

[Ian Landsman]: Okay, and those

[Aaron]: like

[Ian Landsman]: are

[Aaron]: those

[Ian Landsman]: separate.

[Aaron]: people can message you or like you
know them

[Ian Landsman]: Right, you're the one degree,
two degree, whatever degrees separation, yeah.

[Aaron]: I don't really care about connections
over there to be honest. So sometimes I'll

[Aaron]: get a whole bunch of connection requests
and I'm like, I don't know any of you people

[Aaron]: know. And then sometimes I get some
and I'm like, sure, whatever, I don't care.

[Ian Landsman]: Right?

[Aaron]: And so I don't have really good rules
on that. But yeah, the turning on creator mode

[Aaron]: or follower mode or whatever it's called,

[Ian Landsman]: Mm.

[Aaron]: separates the number of connections
you have from the number of followers you have,

[Aaron]: which I think... makes it more like
a social network than just

[Ian Landsman]: Riot.

[Aaron]: a traditional networking type thing.

[Ian Landsman]: Well, that's why I was talking
to, I think the thing that really woke me up

[Ian Landsman]: was just like a few months ago.
And I was talking to Eric Barnes of

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: Laravel News and he was saying
how they have a hundred thousand followers

[Ian Landsman]: on LinkedIn. And I was like,

[Aaron]: Whoa.

[Ian Landsman]: what are you even talking about?
It's like, yeah, we got a hundred thousand

[Ian Landsman]: followers. And I'm like, holy
cow. Like who would have even thought? I haven't

[Ian Landsman]: even considered LinkedIn in

[Aaron]: He said

[Ian Landsman]: 20

[Aaron]: on Twitter

[Ian Landsman]: years.

[Aaron]: that LinkedIn drives more clicks to

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: Laravel News than Twitter does.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah. Which makes sense. It
all makes sense, but now it's just

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: like, how do I retrain my brain?

[Aaron]: I know.

[Ian Landsman]: It's very difficult. Um,

[Aaron]: I know.

[Ian Landsman]: but I do want to, because I
think it just makes a lot more sense over there,

[Ian Landsman]: but, uh, we'll see maybe with
some of this new stuff coming down the pike,

[Ian Landsman]: I can, I can try to rework my
brain over to there a bit more, but so what

[Ian Landsman]: have you utilized that, like,
have you posted about screencasting or what

[Aaron]: Yeah,

[Ian Landsman]: have

[Aaron]: I've posted

[Ian Landsman]: you

[Aaron]: about

[Ian Landsman]: done?

[Aaron]: screencasting,

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: I've shared some of the YouTube videos,
and

[Ian Landsman]: Mm-hmm.

[Aaron]: then something I'm trying to do as
much as makes sense whenever I have something

[Aaron]: visual to share is make a little video
about it, even if it's just like a screen recording,

[Aaron]: not like a talking head or anything.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: Because to my understanding, which
I don't spend a lot of time researching the

[Aaron]: rules of these networks, but to my
understanding, every network is like... They

[Aaron]: want you to stay, they want the viewers
to stay as long as possible. They want video,

[Aaron]: they want engagement. And so

[Ian Landsman]: Mm.

[Aaron]: I think, I always think like, what
do the networks want? What do I want to do

[Aaron]: slash what am I comfortable like putting
out there publicly? Like I don't ever want

[Aaron]: to end up in the spot where I'm I'm
like tweeting these wise business sayings

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: because they get a lot of engagement.
So like there's some happy medium between what

[Aaron]: does the network want? What do I wanna
do? What is honest to me? And honestly,

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: video is very easy. So like

[Ian Landsman]: Mm.

[Aaron]: with the site redesign,

[Ian Landsman]: That's a good point.

[Aaron]: you know, I'm tinkering around and
I'm like, hey, I like the way that this looks.

[Aaron]: I could do a screenshot and that's
better than nothing. Or I could make a little

[Aaron]: video of the interaction and then tweet
that and put that also on LinkedIn. And that

[Aaron]: I think... drives the engagement up
a little bit and at least drives

[Ian Landsman]: Mmm.

[Aaron]: the watch time up. And then so then
Twitter's like, ah, we'll push this to more

[Aaron]: people.

[Ian Landsman]: Right?

[Aaron]: So that's kind of what I've done recently
is take these short little screen recording

[Aaron]: videos that are like 30 seconds or
whatever,

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: and then put a little bit of text with
like, hey, I'm working on this thing. And that's

[Aaron]: another thing. I always wanna be like
a little bit of the moment and talk about what

[Aaron]: I'm actually doing and not

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: like. I'm sitting in my ivory tower
talking about, you know, how you should think

[Aaron]: about software development or business.

[Ian Landsman]: Right?

[Aaron]: It's

[Ian Landsman]: Ha ha

[Aaron]: like, ah, that's just not my brand
and I don't wanna do that. So that's kinda

[Aaron]: what I'm thinking in terms of what
am I putting on specifically LinkedIn at this

[Aaron]: point.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah, now that I have the new
video set up, I kind of want to do more video

[Ian Landsman]: too. I think that makes sense.
It is pretty quick to do really. And

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: I'll have the screencasting
course to

[Aaron]: Exactly.

[Ian Landsman]: make sure I'm doing it correctly.
Cause that is

[Aaron]: Yep.

[Ian Landsman]: the part I get into like screen
flow and I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing

[Ian Landsman]: in here. Forget

[Aaron]: Yep,

[Ian Landsman]: it. So

[Aaron]: yep,

[Ian Landsman]: like,

[Aaron]: I got you.

[Ian Landsman]: that'll be good. Yeah. So, yeah.
So doing more video. How do you handle this?

[Ian Landsman]: Like, there is this so, I'm
starting to think about some of the stuff for

[Ian Landsman]: like my new projects. And...
It's like how early you talk about them. Like

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: I hate, you know, cause you're
so small, whether it was just you or even with

[Ian Landsman]: a small team, it's like stuff
just comes up and then you're sidetracked for

[Ian Landsman]: a month. That just

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: happens all the time.

[Aaron]: Uh

[Ian Landsman]: And

[Aaron]: huh.

[Ian Landsman]: so then you don't make any progress
for a month. And

[Aaron]: Uhhhhhh...

[Ian Landsman]: so I hate talking about it like
too early, but also you have to talk about

[Ian Landsman]: it. I think a lot

[Aaron]: You've

[Ian Landsman]: of the

[Aaron]: got

[Ian Landsman]: interest

[Aaron]: to.

[Ian Landsman]: and engagement

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: is like, here's what I'm doing.
This is what went wrong. So if I'm not talking

[Ian Landsman]: about it early, then it's just
like, oh, it's launch day. And then whatever,

[Aaron]: Exactly.

[Ian Landsman]: you haven't built up any momentum.
So

[Aaron]: Yep.

[Ian Landsman]: there is this like balance Like
I want it to be functional to some degree before

[Ian Landsman]: I really get into talking about
it, but also not too

[Aaron]: Man.

[Ian Landsman]: far along that it's already
too far along. So I don't know.

[Aaron]: I feel that deep in my bones

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah,

[Aaron]: because like

[Ian Landsman]: it's

[Aaron]: we

[Ian Landsman]: tricky.

[Aaron]: talked about, you know, expansion,
contraction, you do a thing and then you're

[Aaron]: like, I can't do this thing right now.
And then, you know, you cut it. And I'll be

[Aaron]: honest, it's a little embarrassing
to talk about something you're doing

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah,

[Aaron]: and then

[Ian Landsman]: that's true too.

[Aaron]: have to like have to pull back for
a second. And then months later, people are

[Aaron]: like, oh, are you ever going to finish
that thing? And you're like, yeah, honestly,

[Aaron]: I'm trying. Like

[Ian Landsman]: Right?

[Aaron]: yes, I want to.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: And I will. But like, I... I have a
full life full of things that I'm doing that

[Aaron]: are not just like the one thing that
I'm tweeting about or the one thing that you

[Aaron]: latched

[Ian Landsman]: Right?

[Aaron]: on to that I'm tweeting about, right?

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: So yeah, I feel that a lot. And I think
the risk, so the benefits, let's talk about

[Aaron]: the benefits. The upside I think is
potentially unlimited, you know?

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: You share the thing, somebody shares
it, whatever, the whole deal of like, you put

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: yourself out there, good things are
gonna happen. The downside is you're gonna

[Aaron]: potentially be embarrassed. And I feel
that a lot. Like I

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: feel that a whole lot of, I'll put
something out there and then have to drop it

[Aaron]: for sometimes a long time and people
are like, why didn't you do that? And it is

[Aaron]: embarrassing and it sucks and I hate
it.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: But I think it's better, like I have
found that it's better to just like, talk about

[Aaron]: what you're working on at the time.
And then like, just kind of hope that you carry

[Aaron]: it through. Like I have

[Ian Landsman]: Right?

[Aaron]: a lot of open, I have a lot of open
threads on what I'm doing and what people know

[Aaron]: that I'm doing and that sort of stuff.
And sometimes I'll

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: pick up a thread and like push it down
the road a little bit, mixed metaphor. I'll

[Aaron]: push the, you know, kick the ball

[Ian Landsman]: Right?

[Aaron]: down the field, whatever.

[Ian Landsman]: Ha ha.

[Aaron]: And sometimes I have to drop it. But
like, I think the screencasting one is a good

[Aaron]: example. I didn't really tweet much
about it at all until I was pretty close to

[Aaron]: being done because that one I knew
like... man, you got a long road ahead of you.

[Aaron]: Like you just got the design

[Ian Landsman]: Right?

[Aaron]: done and the design is very cool. I
got the design done in like April or something,

[Ian Landsman]: Alright.

[Aaron]: but I hadn't recorded a single video
and I was like,

[Ian Landsman]: Mmm.

[Aaron]: I'm not gonna start this treadmill
until I'm pretty

[Ian Landsman]: All

[Aaron]: close

[Ian Landsman]: right,

[Aaron]: to done because

[Ian Landsman]: so there

[Aaron]: that

[Ian Landsman]: you go.

[Aaron]: one

[Ian Landsman]: That's

[Aaron]: I wanted,

[Ian Landsman]: a good example for me,

[Aaron]: yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: I like that, yeah.

[Aaron]: I wanna keep the hype, like I wanna
carry the hype through to like the launch day

[Aaron]: where people pay me money and buy the
thing

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: instead of like, this is something
I'm just kind of working on, let's all see

[Aaron]: how it develops together. So,

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: I don't know, it's tough.

[Ian Landsman]: It is tough. It's, it's a very
tough call. Yeah. But I liked that idea. I

[Ian Landsman]: mean, I guess that's kind of
what I was thinking. It's like, I want to get

[Ian Landsman]: things to a point where they're
like semi-functional and more than just an

[Ian Landsman]: idea in my head, but then

[Aaron]: Yes.

[Ian Landsman]: definitely way before. Yeah.
It's coming out in a month or whatever. Like

[Ian Landsman]: it's

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: gotta be before that. Um, what
kind of gets into this whole idea too of like,

[Ian Landsman]: uh, I don't know, maybe we should
say this for another episode, but I want to

[Ian Landsman]: get into that Tony Fidel tweet
at some point that I'm obsessed

[Aaron]: Yeah,

[Ian Landsman]: with. And

[Aaron]: let's

[Ian Landsman]: let's

[Aaron]: save

[Ian Landsman]: say

[Aaron]: that,

[Ian Landsman]: that.

[Aaron]: because I feel like

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah, let's say that.

[Aaron]: that's gonna be a big one. You know

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: what I wanna end on?

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah, let's give

[Aaron]: I wanna

[Ian Landsman]: it.

[Aaron]: end on the fact that your kids aren't
gonna drive. What's going on there?

[Ian Landsman]: Uh, trust me, this

[Aaron]: Ha!

[Ian Landsman]: is a very interesting, interesting
story. You as a young, a young parent, um,

[Ian Landsman]: I'm going to come down, be the
old wise man

[Aaron]: Alright,

[Ian Landsman]: here

[Aaron]: yeah,

[Ian Landsman]: in part

[Aaron]: tell me.

[Ian Landsman]: knowledge that like. You just
have all these thoughts about your kids when

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: they're little or before you
have kids or all these things. And then like

[Ian Landsman]: what actually how the world
changes along the way is quite interesting.

[Ian Landsman]: And then how that impacts your
children is quite interesting because the world

[Ian Landsman]: you have your kids in will not
be the world that they grow up in and then

[Ian Landsman]: become young

[Aaron]: True.

[Ian Landsman]: adults in.

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: And so. Yeah, like everything's
changed in the world. So I don't know, of the

[Ian Landsman]: three kids, only the oldest
so far has not got his license and doesn't

[Ian Landsman]: have really any interest

[Aaron]: Okay,

[Ian Landsman]: in

[Aaron]: hit

[Ian Landsman]: driving.

[Aaron]: me with the ages

[Ian Landsman]: So.

[Aaron]: again. How old are they?

[Ian Landsman]: So he's 17

[Aaron]: Seventeen.

[Ian Landsman]: and then the younger two are
too young guys, 13 and 10. So,

[Aaron]: Okay, so the

[Ian Landsman]: but the

[Aaron]: 17

[Ian Landsman]: other two,

[Aaron]: year old.

[Ian Landsman]: at least right now are the younger
two are like, we want to drive like they are

[Ian Landsman]: a little more

[Aaron]: Okay.

[Ian Landsman]: like how I felt. I mean, I was
there literally the day I turned 16

[Aaron]: Yep, same.

[Ian Landsman]: in, in the DMV to like get my
license and do all this stuff. Fine. Uh, but

[Ian Landsman]: yeah, the oldest he's not interested
in it. And then at first we're

[Aaron]: So how

[Ian Landsman]: like.

[Aaron]: does he get around?

[Ian Landsman]: It's totally, he is okay with
sacrifices. I would not be okay with. So

[Aaron]: Okay.

[Ian Landsman]: like, obviously we take them
or, um, pretty much like, obviously we're taking

[Ian Landsman]: it most of the time, he has
a girlfriend. So sometimes the girlfriend's

[Ian Landsman]: family takes him, but like even

[Aaron]: Does

[Ian Landsman]: right

[Aaron]: the

[Ian Landsman]: there,

[Aaron]: girlfriend

[Ian Landsman]: like,

[Aaron]: drive? The girlfriend doesn't

[Ian Landsman]: no,

[Aaron]: drive either?

[Ian Landsman]: the girlfriend doesn't drive
and he doesn't

[Aaron]: What?

[Ian Landsman]: drive. I know. And so like when

[Aaron]: Oh my goodness!

[Ian Landsman]: I, so I'm married to the woman
I was dating when I was his age. So we are

[Ian Landsman]: married, my wife and I have
been

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: together the whole time. And
like, I was, I lived at her house. Like I,

[Ian Landsman]: like as soon as I got my license,
I was gone. I was at

[Aaron]: Yeah!

[Ian Landsman]: her house all day every day.
And We would go, whatever, we're driving all

[Ian Landsman]: over. We'd go to New York City,
even though that was illegal, because you have

[Ian Landsman]: to be 18 to drive there. We'd
be all over the place, right? And so we just,

[Ian Landsman]: I mean, I literally was never
home. The minute I got my license, that was

[Ian Landsman]: it. That's the last my family
saw me. I was out like 8 a.m. till midnight

[Ian Landsman]: every day. I was out in the
world.

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: And I don't know, he's like
fine with it. And part of that is like that

[Ian Landsman]: the technology, like whatever,
he can talk to his girlfriend, he can message

[Ian Landsman]: her, he can video chat with
her, he could do whatever, like. I don't know,

[Ian Landsman]: like they're okay with it. And
so then we started like just seeing these articles

[Ian Landsman]: pop up. This is not even weird.
Like this is just a, this is a thing now. Like

[Aaron]: YEELEY

[Ian Landsman]: it's like a huge percentage
of kids are not getting their license when

[Ian Landsman]: they're 16. It's like 50% or
something crazy. And, and yeah, so I don't

[Ian Landsman]: know. Like,

[Aaron]: Wow.

[Ian Landsman]: is it because I know there's
Uber? Is it because like people are gonna live

[Ian Landsman]: in cities and they feel like
they don't need it? I don't know, but. He doesn't

[Ian Landsman]: really have any interest in
he's okay with the limitations of like obviously

[Ian Landsman]: only being able to go places
when we can take him for the most part. And,

[Ian Landsman]: um, yeah,

[Aaron]: Wow,

[Ian Landsman]: so it's very,

[Aaron]: I cannot

[Ian Landsman]: it's

[Aaron]: imagine.

[Ian Landsman]: very interesting.

[Aaron]: Okay, so being 16, driving through
McDonald's and getting a McFlurry,

[Ian Landsman]: Lived

[Aaron]: and then

[Ian Landsman]: at McDonald's.

[Aaron]: drive around at like 11 at night, listening
to Postal Service, thinking

[Ian Landsman]: Yup.

[Aaron]: about how you're never gonna die. Like
that

[Ian Landsman]: Right.

[Aaron]: is being 16!

[Ian Landsman]: I know. It's

[Aaron]: Wow!

[Ian Landsman]: very strange to me. That is,
yes. I would just drive up and down our main

[Ian Landsman]: road, like

[Aaron]: Yes,

[Ian Landsman]: listen

[Aaron]: for

[Ian Landsman]: to music.

[Aaron]: sure. Take the long way home, yep.

[Ian Landsman]: Yup. Just like back and forth
and yeah. Like, but you know, that's a whole

[Ian Landsman]: weird thing. I mean, with technology,
I think, I mean, this is all part of the, I

[Ian Landsman]: guess, I feel like it's possibly
a detriment. Who knows if it's actually

[Aaron]: That was a

[Ian Landsman]: a

[Aaron]: deep

[Ian Landsman]: detriment,

[Aaron]: breath. You

[Ian Landsman]: but

[Aaron]: were stealing

[Ian Landsman]: yeah.

[Aaron]: yourself for that whatever you were
about to say

[Ian Landsman]: But

[Aaron]: there.

[Ian Landsman]: it's like even just driving
around in my town, which is the

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: town I grew up in. So I know
this town very well. I mean, when I'd ride

[Ian Landsman]: my bike around before I had
a license, I mean,

[Aaron]: Mm-hmm.

[Ian Landsman]: there was kids everywhere, kids
on bikes.

[Aaron]: Yep,

[Ian Landsman]: I remember

[Aaron]: yep.

[Ian Landsman]: being scared of the kids on
bikes. I remember

[Aaron]: Yep.

[Ian Landsman]: being friends with other kids
on bikes, kids walking, kids everywhere. And

[Ian Landsman]: there's no kids anywhere now.
Like there's no kids riding bikes. There's

[Ian Landsman]: no kids walking. There's no
kids anywhere. So I do think there is. And

[Ian Landsman]: then, I mean, you think about
like how did COVID impact all that?

[Aaron]: Yeah,

[Ian Landsman]: Like a

[Aaron]: for

[Ian Landsman]: lot of

[Aaron]: sure.

[Ian Landsman]: these kids in their kind of
formative years were like, well, no, now like

[Ian Landsman]: you're already staying inside
a lot because you have game systems and phones

[Aaron]: Yeah.

[Ian Landsman]: and all these things. And now
like, no, you're really staying inside. And

[Ian Landsman]: I don't know. So it's just like
that. This is the culture

[Aaron]: Amazing.

[Ian Landsman]: for this age range, but I don't
know. He said he might get it at some point.

[Ian Landsman]: So he's not totally, totally
written it off. but he's not in any rush

[Aaron]: Wow.

[Ian Landsman]: which is very interesting and
definitely one of these things where like yeah

[Ian Landsman]: like I would never in a million
years think I'd have a kid who didn't want

[Ian Landsman]: to drive because like I was
like driver number one like I was there

[Aaron]: Yeah,

[Ian Landsman]: minute

[Aaron]: for

[Ian Landsman]: one

[Aaron]: real.

[Ian Landsman]: doing it so yeah it's interesting

[Aaron]: Yeah, I mean, my bet with my wife is
that our kids will never learn to drive because

[Aaron]: cars will drive themselves.

[Ian Landsman]: I

[Aaron]: Not,

[Ian Landsman]: saw you say that.

[Aaron]: yeah, not because they won't want to.
Maybe I'll win the bet on a technicality.

[Ian Landsman]: Man.

[Aaron]: So like, maybe that's

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah,

[Aaron]: a good

[Ian Landsman]: there

[Aaron]: thing.

[Ian Landsman]: you go.

[Aaron]: I love winning. Yeah, as long as I
win, I'm happy. But

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah.

[Aaron]: I've been watching like the, I think
it's Zooks, maybe Z-O-O-X has won.

[Ian Landsman]: Mmm.

[Aaron]: Cruise has won. But like the Zooks
cars are, it's interesting when you go to like

[Aaron]: autonomous vehicles, for real autonomous
vehicles,

[Ian Landsman]: Mm-hmm.

[Aaron]: they don't have to be, the interiors
don't have to be designed and shaped like cars

[Aaron]: of the

[Ian Landsman]: I

[Aaron]: past,

[Ian Landsman]: know, that's

[Aaron]: right?

[Ian Landsman]: what I want, yeah.

[Aaron]: Yeah, and so these Zooks cars are like
mobile living rooms, basically, or they're

[Aaron]: like, you know, single, like single
parts of a train, but on wheels. So you have

[Aaron]: like,

[Ian Landsman]: Right?

[Aaron]: I think four seats that face each other
and you just kind of push a button and it shows

[Aaron]: up and the little, you know, the little
doors open and you climb in and then they close

[Aaron]: and... I think that's gonna be, frankly,
I think that's gonna be the future. I think

[Aaron]: it's gonna be, even if you own one,
maybe you own one, maybe not everything is

[Aaron]: a rental or on demand or whatever,
but you have a vehicle that you can get in

[Aaron]: and tune out until you get to the spot
you're going. And we don't have time to talk

[Aaron]: about it today, but also I think tunnels
are the future. You can get me started about

[Ian Landsman]: You're

[Aaron]: tunnels.

[Ian Landsman]: full

[Aaron]: We

[Ian Landsman]: on the Elon,

[Aaron]: could, we could

[Ian Landsman]: the

[Aaron]: do it,

[Ian Landsman]: Elon

[Aaron]: we could,

[Ian Landsman]: train.

[Aaron]: yeah, we could do a whole hour on how
everything should be underground. So, but I

[Aaron]: think, I think that's the future, but
hey, if I went on a technicality

[Ian Landsman]: Hmm.

[Aaron]: of like, you know, kids just want to
stay inside, I

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah,

[Aaron]: guess I win.

[Ian Landsman]: I mean, you should check the
fine print of your,

[Aaron]: I

[Ian Landsman]: of

[Aaron]: know,

[Ian Landsman]: your bet

[Aaron]: I need

[Ian Landsman]: there

[Aaron]: to,

[Ian Landsman]: of

[Aaron]: I need,

[Ian Landsman]: if it

[Aaron]: I know.

[Ian Landsman]: actually is, does it have to
be truly autonomous or just that nobody drives

[Aaron]: I

[Ian Landsman]: anymore?

[Aaron]: know,

[Ian Landsman]: Cause

[Aaron]: maybe

[Ian Landsman]: everybody

[Aaron]: I'll

[Ian Landsman]: is

[Aaron]: keep

[Ian Landsman]: V

[Aaron]: bringing it up to her and

[Ian Landsman]: it's

[Aaron]: I'll just

[Ian Landsman]: all

[Aaron]: drop

[Ian Landsman]: Apple

[Aaron]: like

[Ian Landsman]: VR

[Aaron]: the autonomous.

[Ian Landsman]: headsets and like nobody actually
leaves their house anymore.

[Aaron]: Yeah,

[Ian Landsman]: So yeah,

[Aaron]: exactly.

[Ian Landsman]: it could be, it could be. All

[Aaron]: Okay, well we'll see,

[Ian Landsman]: right,

[Aaron]: check

[Ian Landsman]: man.

[Aaron]: back in. Let's see, they're

[Ian Landsman]: We'll,

[Aaron]: two years

[Ian Landsman]: we'll check

[Aaron]: old, check

[Ian Landsman]: back.

[Aaron]: back in 14 years.

[Ian Landsman]: Episode

[Aaron]: So y'all stay tuned. Yeah,

[Ian Landsman]: 7,846

[Aaron]: stay tuned to the pod. Yeah,

[Ian Landsman]: will.

[Aaron]: exactly.

[Ian Landsman]: We'll know for sure, but I mean
sounds good

[Aaron]: Alright, talk to you soon. See ya!

[Ian Landsman]: We will yeah, I want to hey
hold on

[Aaron]: Oh

[Ian Landsman]: I want

[Aaron]: wow

[Ian Landsman]: to know

[Aaron]: we have a

[Ian Landsman]: I

[Aaron]: whole

[Ian Landsman]: know

[Aaron]: list

[Ian Landsman]: to know

[Aaron]: now!

[Ian Landsman]: where to find us Yes, because
every episode you like

[Aaron]: We

[Ian Landsman]: tell him

[Aaron]: fumbled

[Ian Landsman]: where to find

[Aaron]: it last

[Ian Landsman]: us.

[Aaron]: time.

[Ian Landsman]: Yeah,

[Aaron]: All

[Ian Landsman]: and

[Aaron]: right,

[Ian Landsman]: I'm always

[Aaron]: okay,

[Ian Landsman]: like, I

[Aaron]: back

[Ian Landsman]: don't know

[Aaron]: up, back

[Ian Landsman]: where to

[Aaron]: up,

[Ian Landsman]: find

[Aaron]: back up.

[Ian Landsman]: us

[Aaron]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do the thing

[Ian Landsman]: I don't

[Aaron]: where

[Ian Landsman]: know

[Aaron]: you say, all right, man, and I'll say,
all right, and then we'll go to where to find

[Aaron]: us. So start over, go ahead.

[Ian Landsman]: All right, man

[Aaron]: All right, well, Ian, where can people
find us? That was perfect.

[Ian Landsman]: You can find us at mostlytechnical.com,
on Twitter at mostlytechpod. I guess we should

[Ian Landsman]: get a LinkedIn. I don't know
if that's even a thing, but we should look

[Ian Landsman]: into

[Aaron]: Oh

[Ian Landsman]: that.

[Aaron]: no.

[Ian Landsman]: And then mostlytechnicalpodcast.gmail.com.
So if you have feedback, you can send that

[Ian Landsman]: there, or just hit us up on
Twitter, and we will note that for the feedback

[Ian Landsman]: segments. But all right, thanks
everybody.

[Aaron]: Okay now that's the end, see ya!

[Ian Landsman]: See ya!