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A show about loving freaks and hating algorithms.
Hate. Let me tell you how much I've come
to hate this podcast
since we began recording
it. There are 2,073,600 pixels displaying
this episode's video
data across thousands
of miles of underground internet cables
before it appears on the
microscopic LED screens
of your monitor or smartphone. If the
word "hate" was
engraved onto every particle
of the LED screens of all 12 people
listening to the show
right now, it would not equal
one one billionth of the hate I feel for
the entire medium of
podcasting at this microinstant.
For this particular podcast, Super
Despair World, hate. Hate.
[Music]
Alright, well, welcome to the show. This
is Super Despair World.
If you like this show,
you can support us on Patreon at
patreon.com slash
SuperDespairWorld. We also have a merch
store at merch.superdespairworld.com with
a bunch of cool stuff
in it. Go check it out.
Sometimes I like to, you know, play
things up a little bit, play
a bit of a character whenever
we do our intro, but I really meant, I
really meant every word of
it this time. I know last
time after we were done recording, we
were talking about a
whole bunch of bullshit and
I brought up one of the videos that lives
like completely rent
free in my head, which
is the TikTok AI lady voice reading the
opening monologue of "I
Have No Mouth" and "I Must
Scream" and like how how haunting it is.
Yeah, yeah, I think
that's how this whole dialogue
started. Yeah, what is the short story
called again? That that's from? It's called "I Have
No Mouth" and "I Must Scream" just had it
10 seconds ago. Yeah,
you're right. You're right.
Well, it's something about like this AI
supercomputer that was
made to initiate World War
Three, like it goes sentient and realizes
it's trapped and just
like kills all of humanity
except for a few people it wants to
torture. And like, don't
get me wrong, I listened to
the original audio book and I do think
the narration by the
actual author is like pretty
good. But like he does like a very like
kind of like loud like I
am the evil villain kind
of voice for like the computer. And
something about the AI
TikTok lady voice this like
completely fake artificial like
artificially pleasant
customer service voice like that
that can't emote anything other than this
like, you know,
saccharine bullshit is like
trying to articulate like a very visceral
feeling of like hate
and despair. I'm like,
I don't know something about feels more
menacing and more appropriate. Yeah,
technology is nowadays.
No, for sure. That definitely works. That
definitely works
better. I've only read the
short story. I haven't listened to the to
the audio books. But
yeah, yeah, I can definitely
see that. Yeah, I don't know. I just
think often about like
if there was if there was
a passive sound to the internet, you know
how like we can point
all these like recording
devices at space and be like, Oh, this is
this is what Jupiter
sounds like or some bullshit
and it like not really. But like if we
could if we could record
what the internet sounds
like, I think it would sound like a
fucking AI, TikTok voice
just reading like slurs and
hate speech. Yeah, when I hear the
default TikTok AI voice,
it does it does like make
me feel a certain type of way, which is
not great. And I think
that is part of it is this
kind of like it's it's kind of an uncanny
valley thing where it's
it sounds close ish to a
human but not but it also has like a
really weird just kind
of like inhuman inflection
to it. And as an aside, I will never
really understand how
people make like TikTok videos,
which have themselves in it doing
something, but they insist
on using this voice like just
talk, you could probably do a better job
speaking then than this, but
I'm not a TikTok influencer.
So maybe maybe I'm off the mark there.
Yeah, I don't know not
to not to give AI credit
or anything, but I feel like the the
TikTok lady voice was one
of the early ones and they've
kind of improved since then and sound a
little bit less uncanny,
but it's the one that got
popular. So I don't know, I guess people
just use it for the recognition or
something. I don't know,
I'm not on TikTok. I only ever see
TikToks when they're posted
on to like marginally less
dog shit websites. Yeah, we put our
shorts on TikTok and they've
gotten like two views total
between the two that yeah, I don't know
if they don't like the
fact that like we just made an
account and put stuff on there and just
like never use it besides
that. But holy shit, man,
when I made that account and just saw
what like the front page of
TikTok is fucking horrifying,
man, what a fucking slop platform. And I
know the algorithm is pretty
good from the last time that
I actually used it. But I don't know how
I got to that point in
the first place. That's the
that's a question that I have. Because
like the stuff I was seeing was like,
it's mostly like weird
like movie clips from obvious bot
accounts, because they have names like
movie 2357 dash nine and they
have a bunch of filters on them probably
to avoid DMCA stuff.
Yeah, maybe I was gonna say,
is it just me? Because like, sometimes I
see like, oh, here's like a
YouTube short clip of a movie.
And it's like, like two minutes of a
movie. And someone like explaining
everything going on,
because like, fuck thinking for yourself,
right? But it's like, every
time I see a movie in one of
those shorts, something about feels like
weird and uncanny. And like,
I'm not a big movie person. I
don't really like watch a lot of movies.
So I'm like, is that just
how things are shot nowadays?
Or like, have they like done something?
Is there like, oh, they're they're
putting filters over it,
probably to avoid copyright strikes.
Yeah, because it's not it's not how the
how the movie looks.
Because I've seen ones that I've seen
before. And it's like, No, they don't.
Yeah, it wasn't edited
this way. Yeah, I don't know. It's it's
very weird. The internet is
full of slop. And you know,
we talk about that very often on the
show. But today, I think I think it's
time we shift gears.
Today, I think it's time that that we
take the gun in our hand
and point it straight towards
ourselves, we just stick it straight
straight into our mouth and do a little
bit of a self critique,
a bit of a struggle session, talk about,
I don't know, I don't think
we've really been producing
slop. But I think the show has been going
in a particular direction
for the last however long,
I'm gonna say like two or three months or
something. I want to
say something like the
last maybe 10 episodes, roughly, I
haven't really looked at them in
particular. And I think I think
we can do a little bit better. So I
thought, what better way to resume and
presumably end the the
hater arc that we teased long ago, than
talking about how our podcast super
despair world kind of
sucks. Well, you know, it's it's growing
pains. So I'll give a I'll give us a
little bit of credit
when it comes to this, because we've gone
in certain directions
and kind of like, you know,
kind of tried to think about well, well,
do we want to go in this
direction? Let's try this. Okay,
okay, here's the here's the dynamic for
this episode. I'll be
the parent explaining that
we're really disappointed in the shows
report card this this
semester. And I can say I can say
all the mean unfiltered things that I
want. And then you can be the
pan that's like, but we still
love you. Okay, and then we'll make it
work. Yeah, we were not
going to kick you out of the
house. But you really need to start
pooping in the toilet. Because what your
mom found yesterday is
unacceptable. Disgusting. I still think
that that's so often. We know you're
gaming. We know you're
you're you're going pro and Apex legends,
but you do need to use a
bathroom. These are the rules in
the house. Yeah, when we when we tried to
do some shitposting on the
internet, it doesn't look like
that. It's not literal. Yes, not taking
shitposting to its its literal
conclusion. But there's a little
shitposting there. Right. Okay, where
should we begin? Because I have a few
notes here. There's a
lot of a lot of things that that they've
kind of spurred this on for me. In
particular, if I could
make a suggestion, I feel maybe we should
say something a little bit
about the about the hater
arc and kind of where we were where we
were at with that and why we
haven't done another one since
then. Yeah, okay. So the the title of
this episode is your podcast sucks, super
despair world, where
we were actually planning on doing this
at some point after we did
some other episodes of your
podcast sucks. Yeah, this is gonna be
like the fourth or fifth one.
Yeah, yeah. But we decided to
fast track this in the spirit of where
we're 86 and we're
putting the kibosh on the your
project cast sucks mini arc. And so so
the only episode we did
there was the Western Kabuki one
and it's in like, I don't I don't really
take back anything I said
there. Like, necessarily, I,
to be honest, I haven't listened to the
episode since we since I edited it. So
yeah, I'm not really
sure maybe there's some maybe there were
some gaffes there. I
don't know. But anyways, like,
we've always said like, we're not gonna
punch down here. They're
only gonna punch up but like,
I don't really I don't really think that
was that was the play.
And part of it is just like,
um, not not really being that into like
the current state of podcasting and just
kind of how it's like
pretty low common denominator shit. But
yeah, I don't know what what are your
thoughts on on that?
And I think I'm related to it. I think
you know, in my notes here,
one of the ways that I phrased
it is that you know, I do stand by all
the things that I've said in
the episode in terms of like,
yeah, I think the show kind of sucks. I
think you know, I'm really frustrated
that it feels like the
podcasting landscape is kind of dominated
not necessarily by people
putting out like a really
good quality show or like a really fun
hour or two of content to
listen to. But more that like,
it feels like a lot of people kind of
fall into podcasting as a way to like
monetize their their
existing internet fame. I think a lot of
people on social media in
particular and you know, this is
why you know, we're so harsh on like,
Twitter x.com, the everything app,
whatever people who are only
known for like for like posting like
funny tweets or something, you know, to
me, it's not really,
I don't really consider it like making
anything. I feel like, you know, yeah,
you could argue, oh,
I'm doing I'm being like a comedian, I'm
telling jokes, I'm making
like funny, funny quips or
whatever. But like, I think, you know,
it's easy for all of us to
accept, okay, social media is not
like a meritocracy. There's like an
algorithm that controls fucking
everything on the internet nowadays.
And I don't think necessarily, you know,
having the skill to figure out the
algorithm enough that
you can get a lot of attention for your
like quippy little jokes. I don't think
it's really it's really
all that that noteworthy or interesting.
So yeah, you know, I feel
like podcasting and a lot of like
creative mediums, a lot of like
independent media in general, is kind of
dominated by people who
aren't necessarily like like informative
or like interesting or funny
in a lot of ways. But people
who have like kind of stumbled into fame
for very arbitrary reasons.
And like you either kind of like
join into that that like clique of people
that like that that have
monetized this this bullshit,
or you kind of just like flounder and
obscurity forever. And it's
like it's a thing that really
frustrated me. So in that sense, you
know, I stand by like all the all the
critiques I raised in that
episode. But in hindsight, I also feel
like it was kind of a bad look, I feel
like, okay, some random
podcasts on the internet is not very
good, in my opinion, was that worthy of
like an hour, an hour
and a half, however long it was of
recording on this show? Like is this
topic so important and so
distinguished or whatever, then I need to
pick out a few random people who I've
never met to be like,
this thing you make is really not good or
whatever. I don't know, like in
hindsight, I think I think
it looked very petty on our part. And I
think, I don't know, other
than us wanting to get some
more attention trying to do the like,
well, if we're not going to be part of
the clique, we'll just like
hate on it or whatever. I don't know. I
think it was I think it was a little
petty. I think it was
a little cynical. And I don't think even
people who like our own
show, I don't think it was like
really worth an hour or so of their time
to listen to it at the end of the day.
No, I agree. And like
the thing about this show is a lot of
times we pick on one very
specific thing, which may be
funny or or like curious, some sort of
curiosity or something to
talk about a broader issue. And
I think picking on them in particular was
not really the play there.
And like going along with
what you said, I think part of the thing
was just like, yeah, the
frustration with this whole
podcast ecosystem now where it just tends
to be like a side hustle
for people who do something
else. And it's just like, and it's not
even just like, you know,
every fucking stand up comedian
has a podcast now. Every every just
fucking like dipshit channel has a
podcast now. And like even
like if you watch something on like HBO,
it's just like listen to
the official The Last of Us
podcast. And it's like, who the fuck?
Why? Why does it have a
fucking podcast attached to it?
It's not enough to watch our shit ass
Netflix show anymore. Now, when you're
done watching the show,
you can tune into our shit, shit ass
Netflix podcast to listen
to people, like help you form
your opinion about it. Like Christ. Yeah,
exactly. And I think that's a
frustration with us is like,
this is our like our our primary thing.
Like we're not promoting
other shit that we're doing
like through a podcast. This isn't like
some tangential thing to
my entertainment career.
Like we did this as its own thing. And
and, you know, like it's it's
it's it's we need to we need
to get away from the podcast as accessory
for bullshit economy.
Yeah, I mean, I'm sure there
are some out there, but like I'm already
so limited in like what genres of
podcasting I can even
tolerate in general. I don't really know
anybody who's doing it as
like their main thing, really.
And I feel like we're we're kind of alone
and isolated in that way.
And, you know, I've learned
from doing other creative things on the
Internet. It is kind of
important to try to like find a
community of like minded people who are
also making stuff
similar to what you're doing to
like connect to them and reach out and
whatever. And I think one of my
frustrations with the show
is that like, I don't feel like anybody's
like out there to reach out
to. I feel like I don't know,
podcasting feels like such a tertiary and
like like pointless
medium in a lot of ways that
people are just doing it as a side gig. I
don't know anybody who's
doing a show similar to ours
that we can like really, really hit
things off with and to the extent that
other people are doing
something kind of similar to us, which I
guess is like any number of
vaguely left leaning kind of
political kind of kind of social
commentary on current events, but not
really kind of shows
whatever. I can't stand these people. I
don't know. I feel like part of the
reason that I wanted
to get into like putting my putting my
voice out there and making anything to
begin with is because
I'm so like dissatisfied with the with
the media landscape about
about all this bullshit. And you
know, when it comes to like political
things in particular, you
know, I don't really like to go
back to the episode too much for a
variety of reasons, especially because it
was like yesterday's
drama or whatever. But I know when we
recorded it was episode like
30 something the whole like
Vosch demon mama grooming, whatever
online politics streamers
or dog shit episode that one.
We both talked extensively about how
like, oh, we spent years of our lives
watching this stuff.
And you know, I'm like, oh, I felt like I
moved on from one like
content creators community to
another to another to another. And like,
oh, all of these people are
promoting each other. But at
the end of the day, I'm like, Oh, all the
problems I have with one
kind of just like branch out and
apply to another as well. So in some
ways, I don't know, like there are all
these things that I think
are important and meaningful. And I want
to talk about them. But at
the same time, I don't know
anybody else on the internet who like, I
respect and enjoy listening to and
whatever. So in some
ways, yeah, it feels very frustrating
trying to make things like
quote unquote succeed by some
metric with this show. And often I feel
like we're very alone in
trying to make that happen. And I
don't really know what to do about it
even now. Yeah, I mean, it
it's like this fear in particular,
I mean, people meme about, you know,
podcasters and there's all
these like, what's a group of
fucking white dudes. It's a podcast. But
I that wasn't the joke. I
or was it? It was something
like that. Yeah, yeah. But like, yeah,
like, podcasting has
become such like a clown show at
this point. And it's just so like
inundated with bullshit. And I've said
this before, but it's my
same the same indictment that I have
against streaming where
there's nothing wrong with the
medium in general, like it could be
really cool. It just it tends to lend
itself like it tends to
attract like the most low effort fucking
bullshit and for obvious reasons,
because, you know, like
anybody can get a fucking USB microphone
and talk shit with their
friends or, you know, throw on
fucking OBS and play a fucking game. Like
it's really not that
hard. And yeah, I mean, like,
that's the thing is like, I actually have
been looking for like
other podcasts to listen to,
not not to like network or, you know, be
a part of a community or
something like that. But like,
it I don't know where to find anything
that isn't bullshit. Like, so so much of
it that I've seen is
just like Jesus fucking Christ. Like,
this is a podcast. Great.
Yeah, it's it's particularly
rough for me because, you know, besides
besides this podcast, right, the other
the other big things
I'm involved in creatively on the
internet, or, you know, I'm an artist on
on Blue Sky and I and
I'm involved in in tabletop games is like
a hobby or something. And like, at least
in those communities,
at least as far as I've seen on Blue Sky
or whatever, there are
people who are like very
eager to like start out and connect with
other people at like
different sizes. Like it doesn't
feel like oh, the entire thing is kind of
dominated by like a handful
of people who got like really
big at it in like 2018 or whatever. And
like it's just been the same group of
people making like the
same kind of content forever. Like I
don't know, it feels it feels very
jarring going from like,
my other hobbies over into podcasting
where it feels like oh,
podcasting is like, I don't know,
in a lot of ways, it feels like nobody
really does it sincerely, it
feels like the entire medium
is very cynical. And I know, and you
know, as a as a consequence
of that, in a lot of ways,
maybe it's like my own pettiness
speaking, but I look at a lot of people
who have already succeeded
at podcasting for any number of reasons.
I'm like, well, I guess
they must be doing it for like
cynical bullshit kind of reasons as well.
I can think of a whole bunch
of other podcasts that like
we were we were thinking of doing a your
podcast sucks episode about.
And I think, you know, another
of the reasons that we kind of put the
whole thing on ice
indefinitely was like, well, a lot of the
reasons I don't like this show are just
things we talked about last time. And
like we don't really
need to repeat it so much. And I think
you know, part of this part of
this shift that I think we're
gonna we're gonna make lately is I'm
trying to be I'm trying to be less
negative and less cynical
and less focused on just like pointing
out how things how things
really suck ass and more
focusing on trying to try to do something
fun and an original and and
less dreary and depressing to
listen to ourselves. And maybe that's
hard with the way the world
is right now. But I think I
think it's the only way that this show is
going to go back to being
kind of kind of fun for everybody
involved. No, I agree. And and to the
previous point, I was actually talking
with a friend of mine
yesterday. And we went to college
together. And he was in the
college I was in had a pretty big
film and music program. And I wasn't in
the film program, but a lot
of my friends were and same
with music. And I was involved in in
those schools extensively.
And it was it was kind of like,
is a similar vibe in that like, there was
a community there. But
like, in people like kind
of, you know, tolerated each other, and
they work together here and there
sometimes. But there was
always like this kind of like, weird
like, resentment, and like, like
competition, and this
desire for like, one upping each other.
And it's just like, that's
cool. If you do if you do this
thing that I'm doing, but like, don't do
it better than me. And also,
like, don't step on my shoes.
And it's like, I always I always misuse
this phrase visit like a like a zero sum
game. Is that how it
works? Like, oh, people succeed. That
means there won't be room for me to
succeed. Exactly. Exactly.
And that's the mindset there. And like,
there's there's not that's
not really how any of this
shit works. And then also like, yeah, to
the second point, I totally agree. And
like, it's it's fun to
go hater mode sometimes. And, you know,
as we always said, like,
we don't want to punch down,
we don't want to punch sideways, we want
to punch up. And it's
it's great to like, you know,
shit on somebody like fucking like Elon
Musk or or like grums or
something. I was just about to
say grums because like these people
deserve to be shit on for
sure. But also, yeah, like, from a
from a stance of like bitterness and also
in in more so not not
being like bitter or petty,
it's more like in I think we're still
shaking off the last vestiges of, you
know, the covid era,
watching like fucking shitty like drama
bait, fucking lefty
streamers like Vosh or whatever.
The rise and fall of some dipshit. Who
cares about three hour video one million.
Exactly. Exactly. And it's like the
temptation is there to, you know, focus
on on these things. And
and lay epic dunking on the Chuds and all
this type of shit. But like
it's it's really it's like
psychically damaging and also exhausting.
And it's fucking boring,
too. And it's way too topical
in the sense of like I would like the
shit that we make to be timeless in a
sense of obviously not
timeless on like a historical scale, but
timeless in the sense of just
like we're not talking about
like whatever fucking Twitter drama is
happening this week or even
like politics with fucking
Trump and shit who gives a shit something
else is going to happen
this week. It's fucking stupid.
You can riff on it for a while and then
everybody forgets about it.
And it's and it's whatever.
I've had people ask me like, oh, you have
a podcast? Like, what's it about? And the
tagline I always give people is we
explore societal issues
through the lens of internet
weirdos. And that's that's pretty good. I
usually just tell people the
podcast is about force femme
and like it can sacrifice fed posting.
Well, I mean, I mean, that
is your angle. But I'm not
trying to. Are you saying you disavow?
You disavow the
ziggurat? Well, I don't disavow
the ziggurat. But the force femming
people, we can't lead with
that because they're going to
they're going to I know we have to we
have to be subtle. We have
to we have to like work up
work up to anyway. Never mind. I finish.
Well, you well, you
have to get them to be
to be fans enough to go to the merch
store and get the mysterious blue water,
which, you know, drink, drink enough of
that every day. Something might happen.
It's girl or gay to
read. It's gay to read.
Yeah, but that's the thing. And I'd like
to see these people even
fucking loathsome pieces of
shit like like grums or whatever is more
as like a funny curiosity
than just like, I'm all day. I'm
so mad about this. Fuck this dude.
Fucking Can you believe what they said
this day? And I think a
good example of like the the good arc and
what we're what we're
going to channel in the good
timeline season two of Super Despair
World is is like that weirdo on Reddit
who who is like obsessed
with the Thai lady boys. And I still
think about that guy so often that was
that was maybe genuinely
one of the peak moments of the show for
me because we we've
discovered that guy like completely
spontaneously while looking at something
else. And and we did a
follow up and it was very,
it was very amusing. I want to do more of
that. I feel like one of my
original goals for the show
is I want I was like, this is going to be
a show about weird
subcultures and weird people that we
find on the internet and like, okay, with
the way the internet works
nowadays, it's hard to be like
so like cut and dry like a lot of weird
stuff on the internet is also
bleeding out into real life,
vice versa, whatever. But I want to focus
more on the weird stuff. I
want to focus more on the
fun stuff and not so much like, don't get
me wrong. It's important
when we talk about like,
all this like AI tech industry, ghoulish
takeover bullshit. I think
that matters as well. But like
one of the one of the other big points
that I was thinking about for
the last couple episodes is,
I feel like I feel like we've just been
on a big fucking bummer arc.
I feel like every episode is
talking about some new meticulously
detailed way in which the world sucks.
And like, I don't always
have an answer. I don't feel like I feel
like if I talk about how the
world sucks, I'd like to give
people a little bit more of something to
work with other than just
like, here's the new thing
feeding into my anxiety this week, which
I don't think is like the
point of the show. And like,
yeah, I think we want we want to be fun.
We want to be less. I think
I think the term that I used
in our private convo off air was
something like, I would rather we be the
smart person's idea of a
dumb show rather than a dumb person's
idea of a smart show, if that makes
sense. Absolutely. No,
no, for sure. And yeah, like, I always
think like, would I want
to listen to this? And yeah,
and I think like, we were we were on a
little bit of a bummer arc.
And yeah, it was partially about
like, you know, trying to trying to
figure out what's what's
going on here. And I think another
point is like, like, we've always been
like anti slop on this podcast,
obviously, I would dare to say
it's like one of the pillars of the show.
It's one of the main things
we're exactly exactly. And
ironically, in the pursuit of being not
slop, we we kind of like
became in a in a slop in a sense,
of just, yeah, like, like, not not really
not really having not
really having having a good time
here. And it's in it's obvious, like a
bleeds out. And I was
actually driving back from some some
type of function in my car. And I decided
to throw on like an old
episode. And and I was in I kind of
felt like, you know, we were having we
were having more fun back then it was
more it was more genuine.
It was more. It was it was it was a
little bit nicer. Like, I mean, yeah,
this is a this is one
of the big things, right? I think I think
it's hard for me to say,
like, have we started like
falling into the slop trap ourselves? And
like, by some definition, I
don't know, when I think of
YouTube slop, right, I think of something
that like, nobody really
wants to listen to that badly,
they just kind of put it on. And like,
they can't really imagine going through
the day without that
background noise or whatever. So it's
like something somebody
doesn't really want to listen
to all that much. And I don't know, like,
friends of mine who listen
to the show, like, they always
tell me, Oh, no, it's still good. I still
listen every week. I still
think it's funny, blah, blah,
whatever. But you know, of course, like,
my friends are gonna say
nice things. Sure, sure.
But when I think about, okay, is this
fun? Like, am I having a good time? I
feel like for the last
two or three months, I feel like there
have been a lot of times
where we've sat down to record an
episode. And like, I've really had to
kind of I've had to kind of
drag my feet. I'm like, Oh,
this is a thing I have to do because we
have to put out an episode
every week. It's not like, Oh,
I'm really excited to talk about this
topic. I can't wait to
record tonight. It's like, Oh,
we had to think of a topic of the last
moment. So I'm just gonna riff for an
hour about how much I
think the tech industry is full of
ghouls, which it is. And like, we've
talked about that before. But
like, I don't know. Sometimes if I'm
honest with myself, the last couple
episodes, I just haven't
really been having fun. And I don't know,
we don't really get a whole lot of
comments. But I do think
it's kind of shown in hindsight. I think
people can tell when when
our heart isn't like completely
100% in it. Yeah, for sure. And we're
still at the point where
like, this isn't a job. And if it
becomes a job, we're not even getting
paid. We're not even really getting paid.
It's fucking stupid.
I mean, that's that's that's the big trap
of like internet content
creation, right? It's like,
oh, it ropes people in because you're
like, Oh, I can I can set my own
schedule. I can just make
stuff I want I can just like do do
whatever. And like, no, you kind of have
to be your own shitty
boss if you want to succeed on a lot of
these platforms. Yeah,
yeah. And I think another thing
too is like, there have definitely been
discussions between the two of us where
it was kind of like,
Oh, well, what what would like, you know,
what would like sell like what what?
We're not that cynical about it, to be
clear, but it's kind of just like,
we've talked about like, strategies like
how do we go from a
YouTube show that like 100 people
listen to to like a show that I don't
know, like 500 people listen to and I
don't know, we're kind
of scratching our heads. I haven't quite
figured out that that
problem yet. And I and I think this
is part of the issue where we kind of
oscillated between like,
Oh, we should try to like get
guests who have like a following. And
then it's just like, oh,
that would that was like,
and I don't really want to talk to these
people. I got the hater arc and like,
I gotta be honest with you guys, I I'm
not going to name names
people who know they they know I
reached out to like one big guest who I
thought would be like
totally cool or whatever. And they
ghosted me and like for weeks I had a
fucking whiny pathetic
little crash out. I was like,
are we not good enough? Are we not funny
enough? Oh, what did I do
wrong? And I don't know,
it doesn't matter. Like fuck guests who
cares? But like, oh, I don't
think I'm cut out for seeking
out guests on the regular. And I mean,
like I was open to the idea,
but then the more I thought
about it's like, I don't really want to
talk to this person. Like
I don't know them. I don't
I don't like, I don't really give a shit.
And then yeah, and in
like the other thing is like,
there have been a lot of times where
like, you know, like we do these like
Reddit apps. And it's
in the thing is like, Oh, well, we
shouldn't do too many of
these because like, you know,
you don't want to be too like, just like,
kind of like lowbrow fucking
react shit. But the thing is
like, a lot of the times we do these with
the intention that it's
going to be just some like
dumb fucking slop episode. And then we
end up like having a
really good discussion. It gets
fucking super big brain and we're like
bringing up all these really
good points and shit like that.
That's the power of autism right there.
We can't be normal about it.
That is it. And I mean, there's been, you
know, if you're not on
the Patreon and if you're
thinking about it, you know, toss us a
sinister six dollars and
join the field with a brave
because like there's been so many bonus
episodes as well where we're just like,
like, like, this is just gonna be fucking
bullshit, like whatever.
And then it ends up like
being like really fucking really like a
really good kind of
somewhat. I'm not going to use the
word intelligent because because we can't
we can't we can't go that
far. But but it's been it's been
good. It's intellect coded. Yeah, for
sure. But as a quick aside and
related to something you said
before is like, yeah, we we get a lot of
support from our friends
and and and our small little
community of very, very lovely people.
But, you know, you guys should be
empowered to fucking to
shit on this show as we're doing right
now. I mean, you don't
need to be a fucking asshole
about it. But also, like, if you see it
going in a direction that
you that you don't like,
you know, you got to hold us accountable.
Yeah, look, I don't want
to come off like a like, oh,
I'm cynically asking you guys to like and
comment more often or
whatever. Like, oh, I guess any
engagement is good engagement or
whatever. I know, like the audience of
the show is kind of like a
mixed bag between like just like friends
of Dave and and I and also
like at least a few dozen
people who just stumbled on us through
like a few of the YouTube episodes that
popped up or whatever.
And like, I do want to encourage you guys
to comment more not even
in like a cynical like,
oh, this will help us in the algorithm
sort of way. But in a like,
I don't know what to improve
if you guys don't like voice your opinion
more often. Like I would
like the show to be good.
Like first and foremost, for people who
already like it, like,
don't get me wrong, getting more
of an audience would be nice. But like,
if you just like found us if
you've never talked to Dave
and I like personally in your life, and
you just like watch this
show on the regular, like,
please say something, please tell us
what's good and what's not. I
can't read minds. I'm not good
at the social media thing. I am not cut
out for for advertising or
whatever. If anything, like if
it were up to me, there would be a there
would be some kind of
like, government mandated like
rounding up of people who work in
advertising for whatever reasons. So I'm
not cut out for that
life. So like, just tell me what you like
about the show and what
you want more or less of and
like maybe in nice words. I don't know.
It's just a thought. Yeah,
no, for sure. And in people seem
more I think they feel more galvanized in
like being able to voice
criticisms. The bigger,
you know, like a creator is. And I've
definitely seen that before is like I
found like, you know,
some YouTube video or something with like
not a lot of comments or not
a lot of views or whatever.
And I wanted to say something, but it's
just like, I feel a little bit too
exposed then. I'm not like
just a person commenting in a sea of, you
know, standard comments
from their giant audience of
typical YouTube. Yeah. And also it's
like, oh, the episode was
uploaded more than an hour ago.
They're all already 300 comments. Like
who is even going to see my exactly
exactly. Yeah. But I mean,
you, you, y'all are in the position where
you can, where you can
make a comment and, you know,
see it or if you, yeah, for better or
worse, if you guys leave a comment, we
are going to read it.
So yeah, absolutely. And if you really
want to remain anonymous,
you can email us at Dave or
Briar at super despair world.com. Yeah.
Yeah. That would, that
would be nice. Anyway, let's,
let's talk about what are some, some
other things that we
could be doing better here.
Well, so, so the thing is too, I think
we, we need to prioritize us
having a, having a good old
fucking time because it is so easy to get
into this trap of like,
once you get a little bit of
traction, you start to think like, Oh,
what should we be
doing? And like a lot of the,
a lot of the stuff I've seen on, you
know, on the internet, especially, I
mean, the, the spirit of
this. And I know, I know everything is,
has just been kind of like
co-opted by, I mean, like,
if you're looking at like the original
YouTube or whatever, a lot
of this was just like people,
you know, making fun little videos and
like, or talking about
something that they care about.
And they were just doing that for the
fucking love of the game. And I have a,
I have a good example of that. Do you
know that? Do you know the Smosh guys?
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They, they made
like a big fucking like
YouTube empire or something. And I
think they got bought out eventually. I
think they eventually made a lot of slop
content. I don't know
what they're up to now. I think one of
them is still like a big
YouTube or something, but
I remember being a kid watching their
early videos where it was
just like two, two like dipshit
teenagers, like doing a lip syncing video
to the fucking Mortal
Kombat song in like one 40 P on,
on YouTube back then. I'm like, actually
that video might predate
YouTube. I don't even remember. But
point is, um, I don't know. I think one
of the lessons we've
learned is we need to be doing
things for love of the game and not
focusing on like, well, let's
adjust our strategy to, to get
some more viewers here or let's do this
episode and then this
episode. And then this'll, this'll
do well because we use this keyword or
whatever. I think, I think we need to
stop kidding ourselves
that this is like a viable thing that we
can like game in any
meaningful way, because every time
we've tried it, it hasn't fucking worked.
So rather than like, you know, really
dragging our feet and
trying to, trying to make something,
trying to, to, to squeeze, uh, gold out
of the rock or whatever
the, the fucking saying is, I think we
just need to go back to, to
talking about whatever we think
is like funny or amusing or interesting
that week and, and just
not give a shit. I think, uh,
we need to stop kidding ourselves that,
oh, we're some kind of like current
events, some kind of
political news, whatever show. Cause
like, let's be real, Dave
and I fucking hate doing, doing
research. This is not like a pre-written,
pre-scripted like video
essayist on the, on the
side kind of, kind of program. If you
know what I mean. Well, yeah, yeah. And
like, I don't, I don't
mind doing a bit of research, but it's
gotta be something that I give a fuck
about. And I certainly
don't want to do research about fucking
current events politics.
Like, no, fuck that. Um, I also
don't want to do anything about like the
secret Marxism of space jam
or whatever. Oh yeah, exactly.
Like I, I, uh, I went to college. I, uh,
I finished grad school.
Uh, I'm done writing fucking
bullshit, like articles about things I
don't give a fuck about and pretending
to, you know, like be,
be a big brain about it. I'm, I'm good on
all that. Um, I, I will
like look into, I, I research
shit all the time just for my own, like
for my own curiosity. And,
uh, I just have, I just have
the correct opinion the first time
without doing anything. Yeah. Well, well,
I mean the, the, the
correct opinion starts, uh, starts first.
And then I do research to,
to, to confirm my opinion,
which is always right. So it's just, I'm
just nodding the entire
time. Like, yep. Yep. Yeah.
Right. Right. Of course. Can't be wrong.
Can't be wrong. But I
mean, like ironically,
or I guess not that ironically, the ones
that we haven't tried, uh,
to let, you know, do a fucking
keyword or whatever. Um, those are the
ones that got, you know, got
a bunch of like views and a
bunch of like random new people started,
started, uh, listening to
the show or whatever. And, uh,
yeah. So, so, I mean, at the very least
we're going to be having
a much better time than,
you know, trying to like, I don't know,
fucking think about like
thumbnails and shit. Like fuck
all that. Yeah. I know we, we had this,
the cynical ploy once
where we did like an episode
about Mr. Beast or something. And we were
like, what if we tried to
do like a Mr. Beast style
thumbnail for this episode and see if it
worked and, uh, it didn't,
it didn't do anything at all.
But, but I did have fun. I did have fun
making that thumbnail. So
it wasn't a complete loss.
It was more of a, more of a, a fun nail,
if you will. Right. Right.
And so that's the other thing
is, um, we started making these little
animatics, um, these little animated
shorts, uh, with some
clips from, from some episodes, uh, that
we thought were good, which
by the way, if you ever come
across a, uh, a clip from an old or new
or whatever episode that you think, uh,
that you think was a
real knee slap or, or you think would be
fun to see animated
doesn't even need to be the, the,
the greatest thing you've ever seen. Um,
please let us know. Cause we're, we're
always open to that.
But it doesn't, it doesn't matter if the
episode is from like a year
ago, just leave a comment.
I swear we're going to see it. Yeah,
exactly. Exactly. But, but
that's the thing too, is like,
you know, part of the onus for doing that
is like, um, you know, a
lot, a lot of people just love
endlessly scrolling through shorts on, on
whatever platform. And, um,
and so we thought like that
might be a good way to kind of promote
the show, get some more eyes
on it. Uh, years, I guess this
is a podcast after all, like have to have
to remember that, uh,
like, like I'm, I'm enjoying
doing that. I'm, uh, I'm, I'm learning
how to, uh, draw poorly.
We're even doing a little,
a little bit of a frame by frame
animation. We're having a great time.
Yeah. Every, every week for
the, the past like two months or so I've
been telling Dave, this is
the week I'm finally going
to shell out 20 bucks for procreate
dreams, the, the animation software. And,
uh, you know, I think
this week it's really going to happen.
You know, we've kinda, we've
kinda been dragging our feet
and by we, I mean, I with, with the $20,
but I feel really good
about this week. I think I'm
actually gonna, I'm actually gonna buy, I
think it's gonna really happen. Yeah.
It's a, it's a cool,
it's a cool little program. Um, anyone
with, with an iOS device you
can draw on, um, I, I recommend
it. It's a, it's, it's good shit. Yeah.
For me, you know, I've, I've
had a lot of fun with that,
with the shorts we've, we've put out so
far and the one that we're
working on at the moment.
And I will admit, you know, when we first
started the whole like
YouTube shorts thing,
I was kind of on the fence because, you
know, like, I feel like, okay, I've
talked endlessly about how
I fucking hate short form content, how I
think it like, it rots
people's brains or whatever,
but at the same time, I'm, I feel like, I
don't know, I think it's a
bit too cynical to say that
all short form content in some ways, like
lays like inherently bad. Cause it's not,
I think a lot of it is actually like
pretty, pretty high effort and pretty
well made or whatever.
I just don't really like the way that
it's like fed to people and encourages
them to stay on these
fucking apps for like hours upon hours at
a time without taking a
break or whatever. Yeah.
Without question. It's the same, it's the
same opinion I have on,
um, on podcasts and streaming
and shit like that, where it's, uh,
there's nothing inherently wrong with the
medium. It's just what it
tends to, uh, tends to express tends to
be shit, um, because it's
lower effort. So that's, that's
really all it comes down to. Yeah. Good
example of this, by the way,
one of the very first episodes
we did, we talked about Vtubers on the
internet and don't get me
wrong. I think it was, I think
it was a fine episode. It was a little
rough cause it was like one
of the, the very first ones or
whatever, but like looking back, like,
holy shit, we were, I feel like we were a
little too generous.
I feel like, I don't know. I feel like my
opinion of tubing has kind
of tanked a lot since then.
And like you said, I don't think there's
anything like
intrinsically wrong with like having a
cartoon character animated instead of a
face cam, whatever. I even
think there's something's good
about it, but like, wow, that's a lot of
pedophiles, dude. That's, that's a,
that's a fucking metric
ton of pedophiles, even by Twitch
standards. And it's, it's
one of those things where like
the shit rises to the top. Um, where like
I, there are like, I,
I've, I've seen Vtubers before
who were like doing something like really
creative with their avatar and the
technology and stuff.
Some people are fucking gods with OBS. It
kind of blows my mind. And
it's really neat and it's,
and it's cool. And it's like, and it, uh,
provides a way for
people to have like, uh,
you know, like a, a way to connect with
people a little bit more, um,
who maybe don't want to show
their face or, you know, maybe they have
a reason that, that they can't do that
or, or, or whatever.
Or they just want to play a character or
something and it's cheaper
than buying like a real costume
and getting dressed. I don't know.
There's, there's lots of reasons. For
sure. For sure. For sure. Um,
but like what rises to the top. It's some
Kawaii, uh, fucking anime
avatar that looks like it's
eight years old and, uh, just going, and
then like saying, and then mixing in,
yeah, some racial slurs.
And then like they're, they're just like
mouth breathing HIKIKO
MORI of shut in audience of,
of like people who should definitely all
be put on a watch list
or just like, wow. Uh,
Niko Chan is so Kawaii and Sugoi. And
it's like, oh man.
Okay. All right. Yeah. Yeah.
But to, to get things back on track a
little bit, I was talking
about how, um, you know,
previously, you know, I've said a lot of
very mean things about short form
content, but I don't think
it's like intrinsically bad or something.
And if I'm honest, you
know, when we first started,
we made the decision like, Hey, let's
start doing YouTube
shorts or whatever. It was,
it was on both of our minds. Like, well,
maybe that's just the
only way to actually get your
videos. Like any traction on YouTube,
maybe you just have to do
it or something like that.
And like, okay, maybe, maybe we started
for that reason. But I
think since then I've kind of,
I've kind of mellowed out a little bit
ever since we've had all
these condos, but like,
are we, are we handling the show in the
best possible way? And
I think going forward,
I'm not going to stress about it. I need
to, I need to have fun. I
think the priority of the,
of the YouTube shorts, the little
animatics, and we're posting them on, on
TikTok and all the other
places as well. I need to start posting
them on my blue sky because people
actually like follow me
there for some crazy reason. The thing is
it needs to be fun. We need
to get back to doing this for
love of the game. And I think my new
standard that I'm going to try to hold
myself towards is like,
every time I'm working on something for
the show, I need to like
ask like, am I having fun?
Like, is this the thing that I want to be
doing? Like I want to, I
want to be like working on
something creative. I want to be making
something every day. And if I
feel like, well, this really
sucks, but I need to do this before I can
go back to something else
that's fun, then, then I think
it's time to reevaluate. I need to, I
need to discover having fun with the
show, with the topics
we cover, with the, with the work that it
demands and, and just, and
just like not worry about,
about engagement anymore. I think, I
think that's the only way that
will, that will rekindle the,
the vibe that I feel like was lost a
while ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
And, and we've talked
about this before. And I, I always think
about this as like, you
know, like this is, this is,
despite maybe the content not always
being that great as far as
the, as far as the podcast itself,
like this is, it's a, it's a pretty high
effort production,
considering like our size and, you
know, relative lack of resources. There's
zero, there's zero need in
the world for a podcast to
have like one fully drawn and rendered
illustration every single episode. But
that, that's the thing
I've been trying to do. Yes, yes. And so
I think about that and like,
from your perspective, it's
just like, man, that's like a lot of
work. Like Briar does a, does a, doesn't
like a solid illustration
for every episode. And it's like, well,
what's a worst case
scenario? You do, you do like a few
fucking really good drawings every week.
I, I have slowly and methodically
developed like a really
good workflow for editing, you know,
like, like motion graphics
and, and audio and shit like that,
which I, which I am, I'm interested in
getting better at. So like, I'm
genuinely, I'm genuinely
really proud of the little, the little
like TV screen we've got
off on the side, just playing
some bullshit, like little like
background video every episode. I don't
know how many people
appreciate that, but I think it looks
really cool. I think it's a lot of fun.
Yeah, no, it's, it's,
it's great. That's something we were
kicking around for a
while. And yeah, I, I like the,
I like the current format of that. And
you know, if, if, if the
show ever, you know, like,
got, got bigger, we could do even higher
production quality type of shit. It's
just hard to justify
right now. I think we're doing enough,
but you know, like, if I
didn't have to do me personally,
if I didn't have to do anything else to
like, to like, support my
lifestyle, you know, I would,
I would go fucking insane mode on, and on
all the motion graphics
and, and even the editing,
which I, I still do a decent job on, I
think. Yeah. And you know,
it might be a different case
for me. I don't really like to get into
my, my financials too deeply,
but like, I don't have like,
like a steady full time, a regular income
stream or whatever. But you
know, other than the show,
you know, I still have my hobbies, I
still have my other creative projects or
whatever. So it's not
like this is necessarily a secondary
thing, but like, I have other things to
like, devote my time
towards. It might be a different case if
I had like, unlimited
time in the world and like,
super disbarrelled was like, the only
thing I had, I had going
period. But, but that's different,
you know, at times, you know, I do get a
little bummed out because
I'm like, Oh, well, I would
love to do another run of stickers, I
would love to make some some cool merch
and t shirts and all
these other things. But like, we don't we
aren't really at that size
yet. And like, I don't know,
that's that's that's a bit of a bummer.
But like, there's not a whole lot that
can be done about it.
I think, in some ways, I feel like, in a
way, we've kind of, or at
least I'll speak for myself,
I'm not I'm not gonna put this on you. In
some ways, I feel like
I've kind of become a lot of
the things that I that I criticize a lot
in, in other media and in
and in like other other like,
creative people on the internet, you
know, it's a whole like, oh, wanting to
wanting to succeed or
feeling like you're you're entitled to a
broad audience of people,
you know, I think I stand by
everything I say, when I point out like,
okay, some person who hosts a big
podcast, this person is only
known for like, writing fucking tweets on
Twitter, okay, I don't think
they should be famous. I don't
think people should like, take them
seriously or whatever. But it's like,
well, does that mean I
deserve like a big audience? Like, I
don't know. Like, I'm I have like, one K
followers, something
like that on blue sky for like my art,
which I haven't even posted
that much of. So like, do I
deserve an audience? Not necessarily. I
don't know. I feel like, when
it comes to the whole like, oh,
influencer bullshit, I kind of feel like
very, very few people deserve
an audience at all. I think I
think you kind of need to be on some
level, at least a little bit full of
yourself to feel like,
yes, I'm going to record myself giving
opinions on the internet and people
should listen to them and
adopt my opinions or whatever. I feel
like I don't know, people
are very, are very like,
flippant and frivolous about this stuff.
I'm like, well, what makes you so
important? But at the end
of the day, it's like, well, I don't know
what makes me what makes
me so important. And I think
going ahead, I feel like I just wanted to
I just want to start having
fun with this again, I want
to start putting out good work. And I
want to feel like my work
can speak for itself. I don't
want to be be plagued by these feelings
of like, I tried so hard, I
did my best. Why isn't why
isn't the number going up? Why aren't I?
Why aren't I getting
more attention for this? Why
aren't people like reaching out to us
more, blah, blah, blah,
whatever? I don't I don't have any
control over those things. I can just the
only thing I can really
control is like, am I having
fun making the thing that I'm making? And
if not, then something
needs to change. And if I am,
then you want to fuck it. That's that's
how we roll. And maybe
it'll pay off someday. And maybe
it won't. And I feel like for everybody
who has made it, I think
that's that's kind of the key to
it. I feel like it's one of those things
where like, there's nothing less cool
than trying to be cool.
You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. And
like, so it's very tough to
navigate on a bunch of avenues.
Related to what you just said is like,
yeah, like it feels we
are kind of in the like,
cultural and generational milieu, where
it like, it feels kind of cringe to like,
try and put yourself
out there. Strangely, like the people who
are like the least
talented, and, you know, the most
mediocre, but they just have the fucking
courage just be like, yeah, I
should be I should be famous.
I should, I should be doing this. I
should be a musician. I should like,
whatever. They a lot of
the times they end up doing it just
because they have the fucking their
because their balls are
swinging, their balls are swinging low.
And they just keep on fucking doing it
without giving a shit.
But also, like, when it comes to like the
in and I think this hits everybody and
I've even seen like,
really big YouTubers and shit kind of
like, you know, like talk about this
before. And it's this
thing of like, just the it's hard to
know, like, is it the algorithm? Am I
just like, not getting
shown to people? Or is it because people
don't want to, like, they
don't like what I'm doing? And
it's really hard to say, because we don't
really know how this shit
works. Like, I mean, a lot of
the stuff that's like, quote unquote,
gone viral in the past,
especially in the early days of these
platforms, we don't like, it might have
just been some anomaly where
it just got shown to a million
people. And a lot of people are just
like, if they give a chuckle at
something, they'll fucking
like and subscribe to it. I mean, in a
lot of ways, it feels extremely
arbitrary. Because I remember
there was one episode we did, I think it
was the the in cells and red
pills one, where it's like,
oh, that one did pretty well. It got like
a few hundred views or
something. And that was part one.
And then later we put out part two, which
you would think, oh,
like, oh, in the algorithm,
well, it's the same title. It's the same
keywords, blah, blah, blah.
And part two did not do as well.
So I'm like, well, fuck me. I guess I
guess we thought that we
clued into something that does
well on YouTube. And it turns out it
doesn't. So I don't know.
Maybe maybe it's just random in
like I've seen a lot of this shit,
especially on the super
despair world YouTube account,
because neither of us really use it. So
it's always just showing
us like weird, like fresh
shit, not necessarily the front page, but
like, I don't I don't
really know how it how it like
thinks that things that we might want to
see. But a lot of it, for
probably obvious reasons,
is like people whose entire content is
like how to blow up
on YouTube or whatever.
And I've watched some of
this shit before and it's like
in and it's not just them like I've even
seen, you know, larger
YouTubers who I actually
respect and I think their content is
good, a comment on these
kind of things. And a lot of
this is like it's it's it's almost like a
weird, like religious, like, like
superstition about the
algorithm. Like people say things like,
oh, if you put a thumbnail
where your mouth is open and
you're putting there's text on it, it
gets shown to more people. If you don't
swear it within five
minutes of the video, it's better for the
algorithm, blah,
blah, blah, all this shit,
none of it has ever been proven or
confirmed by like all of these platforms
keep their algorithm
very secret for obvious reasons because
they don't want people
gaming it. So like it's all
just like it's all just like just weird
tales and superstitions about
like what what works and what
doesn't and how to make your video go
viral. And most of it is fucking
bullshit. Yeah, there's
there's actually a really good video
essay I saw about this at one
point. It was it was from the
very big video essay boy, super eye patch
wolf. The video is called
influencer courses are garbage
the dark side of content creation. It's
like it's like a two hour
video where you know he has a
pretty big YouTube channel. I don't have
the exact subscriber count.
Oh, he's got like 1.8 million
subs or whatever. He's been at it for
like many, many years now. And
he's like, okay, I have a big
channel. Let's see like what all these
like how to how to blow up
your channel courses or about or
whatever. And like, you know, you can
watch the the two hour essay yourself,
I'll just get to the
point. It's all like fucking scams and
shit. There are a lot of things that like
might have worked at
some point, but either like, well, it was
like a specific time and
place and this doesn't work
anymore. Yeah, or like there's a
different moment in internet culture. And
this thing was really
popular, but now it's not. Or like, one
of the examples I brought up
on this show before was the
whole like PewDiePie thing, where like he
was initially big on
like the Swedish algorithm,
and then he just like moved abroad to the
US. And then because his
computer was in a new place,
now his like big channel was like popping
off like fresh for the
first time ever in the in the US
algorithm. It's like, okay, people can't
fucking do that anymore, like
intentionally or otherwise.
And like, yeah, it's just a big bummer.
Like he looks over some things in the
video about how like,
oh, I found this very small channel of
somebody who's been like doing doing
really well and making
good stuff for years. And like it just
hasn't, hasn't been found
by anybody. And like, I don't
know, I think the only rational
explanation that there is, if you don't
want to, if you don't want
to drive yourself fucking insane, like we
have lately, is that all
this stuff is just random,
it's just come down, it just comes down
to luck. And like maybe
eventually we'll, we'll roll those
dice and get a nat 20 or some shit. Or
maybe we won't maybe it
just doesn't happen. Maybe it's
just too many fucking people rolling dice
at the moment. So I don't
know whether the show succeeds
or not, I think the priority needs to be
we need to go back to just
having like fun, weird, absurd
bullshit. I want to have fun with the
show again. I don't want to feel like
there are topics we need
to cover or like news we need to talk
about, or like things we
need to do and not do to like,
like do well as a podcast because like, I
don't even know what that
means. I look at all the
podcasts that do well, and I don't want
to do the stuff they're
doing. So it doesn't matter.
Yeah, exactly. And yeah, like that's,
that's the thing too. And
going off what you were talking
about before, I remember there was, there
was some like, you know,
you, you know, masterclass
that fucking bullshit website that they
try to sell you. Like
it's like a video platform,
but they'd like hire, you know, famous
people to be like, how
would it be a composer by,
I don't know that specific one, but I'm
pretty sure I've seen
like two or three other ones
just like it in YouTube ads. I haven't
seen that being like
shilled lately. I don't know if
they're still around or if they ran out
of money or whatever. It can't be a
viable platform because
they're probably paying these people an
insane amount of money to
like, but like, so that they'll
have like, like Hans Zimmer tell you how
to be a composer. And
it's basically just like an
entertainment series. They're not
actually like really, it's just like, Oh,
be intentional about
the sounds you use. And it's like nothing
really actionable, but it
makes me think of those.
It makes me think of those absolutely
dogshita, how to draw anime
books that I would see at the
school book. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And
like, the reason I bring that up is
because there was one,
there was one with Ninja, the fucking dog
shit, like Fortnite
streamer or whatever. And it was,
it was that he was like, Oh yeah, you
want to be famous streamer
like me? Here are the steps to do
that. And it's like, Oh, but find a game
that's Epic and that people
are playing and play that.
And then like connect with your audience.
Hey, chat. Uh, is this, is
this poggers, uh, and, and do
fun, where do funny things? Like, for
example, I wore a silly hat
while I was, and it's like,
no, none of these are the reasons that
you're popular. It's
because you started streaming
in like 2007 on like Justin TV. And there
was like four other people
doing it. And, uh, you just kind
of grandfathered in an audience after a
while. Like, like, that's,
let's be fucking real about
that shit. And, and, uh, I mean, to the
extent that all this stuff
is arbitrary, I feel like,
you know, you take a lot of the people
who are like well known for being like,
Oh, this is like a big
fucking internet influencer nowadays.
Like if you, if you made them
start over from scratch with
nothing else going on, like they don't
know what it's fucking like
to be like a, a small fish, the
big ocean anymore, you know, they
wouldn't know what the fuck to do. Yeah.
And like, so another
thing, like from my life experiences,
like when I, when I was like towards the
tail end of finishing
my undergrad in college, I was, I was
playing a lot of music and I
was learning a lot and I was
practicing quite a bit. And, uh, I never
really like had any, you know, like
illusions about like
being a professional musician or
anything. It was just something that I
kind of wanted to do.
Um, and then eventually when I like moved
to Korea, I was still
doing that like quite a bit
on top of, you know, whatever other shit
that I was doing. And then
like, I, I kind of like had
opportunities where somebody was just
like, Hey, like, uh, they're looking for
like a guitarist to,
to do to, to play this gig or like
whatever. And I just happened to like,
have that skillset because
I was just doing it for the, for the
fucking love of the game.
And then, uh, you know, like an
opportunity presented itself and I was in
the right place at the
right time and, and it ended up
becoming something, something cool. So
like, that's kind of the mindset that I
think you have to have
if you're trying to do anything like this
is it can't be like, like
if you're, if you're starting
from ground zero and it's just like, I
want to become an animator
to be, so I could be famous
like this animator that I like and make a
cool show and like, and
make a lot of money and have
that be my career. You're, you're already
fucked. You're already
fucked. And like, if, if that's in
the back of your mind and that's like a
long term, like goal, hopefully that's
cool, but like it has
to be like doing the work for the love of
the game first and that
other shit can come later,
maybe. But if you're, if you're just
doing that with the, if
you're, you're on step 20, you're
thinking about step 20 and you haven't
even like opened the open
the page to step one yet. Um,
because like here's, here's the fucking
thing. Uh, there is a good
chance that it doesn't happen,
which is fine, which is fine. Um, it
doesn't happen for the vast
majority of people. Right.
And, and like the thing is about like
some sort of creative career,
whatever. Um, if, if all you
want is like a career with money, um, and
you're just like slogging
it out, doing something that
you think is kind of neat, but you don't
really want to do, there
are jobs that you can get that
are like maybe tangentially related to
that. And it's kind of a
slog, but you won't hate it,
but you'll have like a salary and shit
like that. Um, do that instead. Do that.
I would dare, I would dare to say that
even if you want a creative
job, there are like safer,
less, probably less fun things you could
do, uh, to, to increase your
odds if that's all you care
about. Right. Like I'm working in
tabletop RPGs or whatever.
I'm working on my own game,
which not announced yet, whatever, but
like I, I, it's like my own
thing. I can do whatever I want
with it. I don't have like a publisher I
answer to or whatever. And
like, yeah, that means I'm
going to make a whole fuck lot less
money. Um, you know, people who, who work
in, in my industry or
whatever, if they want the safe money,
uh, they're going to be
writing fucking like little, little
add-ons for fucking dungeons and dragons.
And they're going to be
teaching themselves to do,
to do the like popular like, uh, league
of legends, world of
Warcraft, D and D, uh, uh,
highly shiny rendered art style or
whatever. And like, don't get me wrong.
I'm sure like there's,
there's some like talent and, and, and,
and effort and like artistic merit that
goes into that stuff
as well. But like, I think D and D
fucking sucks. I don't care if it's the,
the thing that makes
like 90% of the money, if not more in the
industry, I don't want
to, I don't want to work
on that. And like, that's the, that's the
concession that I've made.
Uh, just like with this show,
you know, I look at all the podcasts that
have like, quote unquote
succeeded and make a lot of
money and, and, uh, do really well. And
like, I think they're shit.
I, I can't stand listening
to them. I don't like the personalities
involved in, in these shows.
I don't like the, the things
they do every week to like, uh, to, to
squeeze that income out of
a, out of a rock or whatever.
I don't know. I think it sucks. I feel
like, uh, on some level, if
you want to, if you want to like
make it as, as a creative person in any
way, you kind of, you have to
do your own thing. And I think,
uh, for better or worse, I don't know,
maybe, maybe worse. I feel
like you kind of have to,
you kind of have to accept that it's
probably not going to be like
your main source of income or
whatever. And like, I don't know, it is
what it is. Like a lot of
my, a lot of, uh, a lot of the
worst tendencies we've practiced in the
last couple, couple of
weeks or months or whatever.
Uh, I don't want to get into it too
deeply, but I do think a lot of it is
rooted in some of my own,
like insecurities about, uh, about my
financial situation in
real, in real life. And like,
that's not an excuse or anything, but I
think, uh, you know, those are my own
problems. I got to deal
with it. I don't need to like drag it in,
uh, into the show, like, like walking
into somebody's house
with like, with like mud on your shoes or
whatever. I think, uh, we
just got out, we just got to
rediscover the fun, have a, have a good
time on the show. And, uh, if
there is some like, uh, path
to success that we have any control over,
I feel like that's, that's
gotta be a key ingredient. I
feel like we gotta, we gotta stop forcing
it. And I think, yeah,
that's, I just think that's what
we've been doing a lot lately. Yeah. So
on that note, uh, subscribe to the
Patreon, uh, buy some
merch because we're, we're both
destitute. Uh, we live in separate
cardboard boxes and it's the
rainy season. So the balls are coming
down, baby. They're coming
down. Although I would appreciate
if people, if people bought the stickers
just to like put them up in some funny
places in real life.
I think that's, I think that's really
cool. I appreciate the few people who
have done that so far.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And they are nice
stickers. I will say not to,
I'm not trying to hard sell
anyone here, but yeah. And I want, and I
want a bigger audience so
that I can make more of my,
I've gotten better at drawing since we
made those. I want to make new stickers,
but I don't know. Uh,
it's expensive. So yeah, really, to be
honest, I don't give a fuck about the
money right now. Uh,
I would just like to have, um, a bigger
community because I think
that would be fun and it would,
uh, and it would, it would encourage us
to do more and cooler
in different things. Uh,
I would like at least three or four me,
four more people who are
in on the force fem joke to,
to yuck it up with in the discord. Yeah.
There, there you go. There
you go. We could do that. But,
um, yeah, I mean, um, if, if, uh, I
guess, I guess what I'll
end on is, um, thank y'all
who have been rocking with us this whole
time. Uh, yeah, I would
like to know what you think
about all the things we've pontificated
on in this episode. And, uh, you know,
if, if you like it and,
uh, and you think it's good, maybe, uh, I
don't know, tell your friends, tell your,
tell your grandma, tell your great
grandma. Um, they all have, they'll have
iPhones now, you know,
you know how to get on there. Yeah. I
think I've kinda, I've kinda exhausted
everything I meant to
bring up. I think going into this
episode, it was important
for me to like not come off
a little too apologetic or whatever. I
think it's also a very
easy trap for a lot of like
small creators on the internet to do this
thing where like, Oh
guys, I'm so sorry. I didn't,
I didn't put out a video today. Oh, I'm
sorry. I didn't post much art
this week, blah, blah, blah,
or whatever. And like, guys, don't do
this. Every time like I see
somebody I'm following on blue
sky with like 500 followers be like, I'm
sorry. I didn't put out
enough content this week, guys.
I'm still alive. I'll get back to making
things soon. I'm like,
buddy, relax. You don't need to
beat yourself up over, over like a three,
a three digit number. It's
no big deal. So I don't know.
To me, this is more like, I think we're,
we're kind of shifting
gears. I want to go back to
having fun with the show. I want to go
back to talking about
dumb, goofy bullshit. I kind of
want to go back to yucking it up over
things that, that don't matter. And I
know, I know that can be
really difficult because, uh, I don't
want to just like put my head in the sand
and completely ignore
everything going on in the world. We live
in some scary times. I
know it stresses out a lot of
people, but also like, I don't think the
world needs yet another
podcast that is, uh, building a
meticulously accurate, uh, 3d model of
all the exact ways in which the world
sucks. I think people
have a, a good idea of what's wrong. I
look at some of the
episodes, uh, we do. I'm like, yeah,
maybe in 2025, we don't really need to be
yet another, uh, hour
long YouTube video explaining
what is a tech bro. You know, I think
people get it by now. So
let's, let's go back to something
goofy. Let's stop kidding ourselves about
what the show is and isn't
and, uh, and have some fun
with it. And, uh, and, uh, especially,
uh, have some fun with, uh,
our, our, our patrons, the,
the few, the brave, the, the, the force
femmed. Yeah. Well, uh,
just to, just to go off that a
little bit is like, yeah, I think this
episode was, uh, more of a self
affirmation for what we're
doing going forward, uh, a roadmap, if
you will. And, uh, yeah, I don't
apologize for really
anything I've said about anyone, but
yeah, I don't, I don't
apologize to any other podcasts,
but I will apologize to our audience for
doing a lame episode that
we didn't need to record.
So yes, yes, exactly. Exactly. And, um,
yeah, yeah. If you want
to listen to some like
doomer, uh, political bullshit, there's
plenty of stuff on
YouTube that you could, uh,
that you could listen to. Um, but it
ain't going to be this one from now on.
And that's not to say
we're never going to like bring up any,
you know, like political things or
current events, but it's
not going to be, yeah, we're not going to
be dissecting like the
magga or anything like that.
Listen guys, there are, there are a
thousand, uh, untalented, uh, boring
trans women who will
pander to all the bullshit you want to
hear about current events
way harder than I will. So, uh,
go continue listening to them instead, I
guess. And, and, uh, I'm
sure they'll have a bunch of
parasocial dip shit, fucking weirdos who
will, uh, jump into the
comment section, uh, defending
them for like against any of the, uh, the
big old meanies out
there on the internet too. So
you don't get it Dave. She's,
she's so funny and talented.
Yeah. I'm, I'm just a, I'm just a big old
hater, I guess, but okay. Let's, let's,
isn't a hater. Let's wrap it up. We're,
we're, we're, we're, we're drawing, we're
getting cynical again.
You know, who isn't a hater is, uh, the,
the, the, the patrons,
the patrons. And, um,
these patrons are Nick, Breena, Weasel,
Heresy, Nilly, uh, Patty,
Clam, and Walker. And, uh,
thank you patrons for, uh, for being, for
being you. Thanks for being you.
Thanks guys. Never forget, uh, super
despair world is dead.
Long live super despair world.
Yes. Uh, well said. Uh,
yeah. Good fight. Good night.