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I design and build software, and my wife is a kindergarten teacher. Join us as we talk about parenting, our careers, and whatever else goes on in our very busy, but very rewarding life.
[clears throat]
[laughs]
I, um... This is the last time that I'm
gonna, to bring this up. However, I would
like to bring to the table, uh, evidence
today. Uh, we were sitting at the dinner
table, and...
-What?
-Ally looks over at me and says-
-Oh... No
-... says, "Oh, wow, I just feel like our
-home feels so cozy now."
-Oh? Okay.
And do you wanna know why our home feels
so cozy now?
-This is-
-And why it didn't before? Is because she
-redecorated the house.
-I did not redecorate the house.
Because you cannot say, you cannot say,
"Uh, the house feels cozy now-"
-I just, the space we were sitting in-
-... in- insinuating that the house was not
-cozy before
-... Oh, my word. I don't have-
And then argue that you didn't redecorate
the house. 'Cause then you would say-
-Listen
-... "This room feels cozier," or th-
-Listen.
-But no, you said, "The house."
-Look.
-So you redecorated the house.
-I did not-
-I win. I win
-... redecorate the... You don't win.
-I win.
-No. And you-
-'Cause she redecorated-
-I did not-
-... another room today
... and I don't have the energy to deal
with this.
-Completely redecorated the bathroom-
-I did not-
-... and the hall
-... [laughs] completely redecorate the
bathroom. You're ridiculous. It's a new
shower curtain, and I put down a rug.
-That's not redecorating.
-And you put up a whole new frame.
-A picture?
-Yep.
-A five-by-seven picture?
-What else is there to decorate in a hall
-bathroom?
-Oh, my word.
-The answer, nothing. So you did-
-Well, plot twist
-... redecorate it.
-I did just get some more stuff for there,
-so...
-For where?
-The hall bathroom. [laughs]
-Wait, you got more stuff? What more do you
-need-
-Just some-
-... in a hall bath?
-... some, like, towels to put over the
-towel bar. And...
-Like, fake towels?
-They're not fake towels. [laughs]
-Are people going to be taking showers
-while they're here?
-I don't know, maybe. If we have guests.
Okay, but nobody cares about any of this
because all eight of these people right
now are saying, "Praise heavens, Will's
wearing pants." [laughs]
-Shut up. Yeah, I had to. I had to.
-[laughs]
-I'm, I am a fan of the short-short.
-Will is Team Shorty-Short.
If my shorts are touching my knees, I
ain't about it.
-No.
-So, those cannot be worn on... As somebody
-said on Twitter-
-Ever-
-X, whatever.
-[laughs]
And they said, um, "This is a family
program." [laughs]
-Ex- exactly.
-So put those away.
-Yeah.
-All right.
-Well, you know.
-Well, once again, this is Ally and Will,
-Episode-
-That felt weird.
-... 2029?
-Is it?
-29.
-Ew.
-Does anybody get that reference?
-You should.
-29.
-Okay, they heard you the first time. Stop.
-[laughs]
-Okay, I think it's Episode 29 of the No
-One Asked Us Podcast. Podcast? Is that-
-I don't feel-
-Why does pod-
-... like this is Episode-
-Why does podca-
-... 29.
-Why did podcast feel weird?
-If you renamed it, wouldn't it be a second
-one?
-Be Episode 2? I mean, I guess,
technically, this is the second episode of
the, the renamed podcast.
-So it's just, like, a brand new one.
-So, d- what, do we just, like, make a new
-season?
-I don't know, I guess.
-We'll think- we'll figure it out.
-I don't literally do anything other than
-sit-
-Let's do it.
... and listen. [her music] I mean, what
do you want me to wait, like, a
-dramatic pause?
-I don't know, Alison. You gotta intro the
segment. It's time for Quote of the Week,
or quotes. This time, there's only one, so
-it's-
-I've got-
-... Quote of the Week.
-I've got two.
-Ooh. Quotes-
-I mean-
-... of the Week-
-Quotes of the Week
-... plural. Hit me.
-Quote-
-'Cause I only know one of 'em.
-Well, you know the second one.
I'm sure I do, but I don't know what
you're thinking right now.
-Oh, okay.
-I don't read minds, clearly, as evidence
-of our marriage. [laughs]
-Obvious. [laughs] Okay. Um, no. The first
quote of our week was, "I feel scrunched."
-Hm.
-And-
-That was a good one.
-It was a good one, and it came from our
daughter, who just wrapped up her
kindergarten year.
-Mm-hmm. It's a big year.
-And just, there's been, like, a lot of
emotions for her, ending that, because I
teach in... I taught in the classroom
right across from her, and that came to an
end. We were together all the time.
-Mm-hmm.
-But then we go to church Wednesday night,
-and she goes to, um, Bible class.
-Right.
-And they kind of mentioned, um, heaven.
-Oh, yes, yes.
And so she starts to get, like... At
bedtime-
-A little emotional
-... she processes all of her emotions for
the day. And she starts getting a little
upset, and you could tell she's just very
in her head about things. And I'm trying
to, like, have the heaven conversation
-with our five-year-old at-
-Whew, let me tell you
-... eight o'clock at night.
-At the end of a school year.
Yeah. And so she's just... We're just
talking, and I'm, you know, saying, "Hey,
you know, if there's ever anything that
you wanna chat with me about, you know,
I'm always here. No matter what, I'm here
to talk." You know, yada, yada, yada. And
I said, "I'm here to talk about the things
that make you feel happy, the things that
make you feel sad, the things that you
don't understand-"
-Mm-hmm.
-"... if you ever have a question about."
-You know.
-Which, that could be a whole topic in and
-of itself.
-It could be.
Just, like, trying to make your kids feel
comfortable-
-Uh, 'cause she just-
-... talking to you.
But I feel all of those things right now.
I feel scrunched.
-[laughs]
-And I was like, "Well-"
-What a line.
-That makes total sense, when you're-
-Out of the mouth of babes
-... happy and you're sad and you're
-confused and all of the above.
-Yes. I mean-
-"I feel scrunched."
-Feel scrunched. What a line. I mean, she
-nailed it.
-She did.
That's, like, I've never thought of it
that way, but there are so many times
where it's like you're feeling so much and
there's so much going on-
-And it's just-
-... that you just feel-
-... feel-
-... scrunched
-... scrunched. You feel scrunched.
-So, if you ever need... You, y'all now
-have creative freedom to use that-
-Mm-hmm
... if you need to tell someone you feel
scrunched.
-Feel scrunched.
-Okay, what's number two? Oh-
-It's an audio clip
-... this is a good one. Don't play it into
the mic. I'll play it, I'll, like, clip
it in over... Like, after. I mean, you
-could just play it-
-I mean-
-... so we can hear it. She's gonna put-
-But how do I not play it into the mic when
-it...
-You can play it. I'll cut it.
-Okay.
-We're gonna bloop something right here.
Well, we're not gonna bloop it, because I
don't wanna show you-
-You're just gonna hear it
-... I don't wanna show you a video-
-Just gonna-
-... of our kid, so.
-We're just gonna hear it.
-Audio clip coming in now.
-Wait, here we go.
-False start.
-[laughs] Thank you.
-I got more kisses in my heart.
-Wait.
-I got more kisses in my heart.
-[laughs] The most-
-More kisses in my heart.
-Just the sweetest little voice.
-He is a sugar.
Uh, our middle child is sitting there and
gave, what was? I think it was like he was
-giving you kisses.
-Or one of the grandparents and-
And he said, "I'm all out of kisses." And-
No, I said, "Do you have any?" He said, "I
gave them all. I gave them all to
-Grandmom," or something.
-Gave all my kisses to Grandmom.
I was like, "Oh, you don't have any more?"
And he just... And him and his little
-lisp.
-His little lisp. [laughs]
He just goes, "I got more kisses in my
heart."
It's the, it's the lift at the end. The,
"In my heart."
-Yeah.
-Like the ooh.
-That scene-
-[laughs]
We're not gonna show you the video, but
like, and then afterwards, he does this
-little like-
-A smolder. He just like smi- he knows he
-was cute.
-He does.
-Oh, what a-
-So that was my second guy.
-Okay. That's a good one. All right.
-I got more kisses in my heart.
He does have more kisses in his heart. But
you brought up something while talking
about Palmer's thing that, uh, where
you're like, "Oh, it's the end of the
school year. We feel all tired and
everything."
-Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
-And I would like to bring to the
audience's attention that I'm actually
married to two women.
-[laughs]
-Um. [laughs]
-This is absurd.
-Uh, there...
-[laughs]
-Allie, uh, is made up of multiple. There
-is, there's-
-Hey, you make me sound like I have-
-Multiple personality disorder?
-[laughs]
I don't know. Y'all tell us. [laughs] Just
kidding.
-Or don't.
-Or don't. Don't weigh in on Allie's mental
-disorder.
-I think you are digging a really deep hole
-here.
-I'm not. Okay. I'll-
-[laughs]
-I'll just get to the point then before I
am ending on the couch. Uh, there is
school Allie and there is summer Allie.
-Ah, yeah.
-There are, there are two Allies, and let
-me tell you, summer Allie is a good time.
-Summer Allie's here.
She is not over stimulated. She is not
exhausted.
-I mean, it's-
-She has not had to take care of 20-
-... in a different way.
-20 different children. It's only our
-children.
-Just our other kids, or will.
And then, like, on top of all that, it's
like-
-[laughs]
-... even if... Well, okay. Hmm.
-[laughs]
-Nobody, nobody asked you. [laughs] On top
of that, it's like she feels like in...
Like we're at home and she's not at work,
so it's like when she knows there's things
she wants to get done around the house,
-she can just do them.
-Like touching up areas of the home.
Right. So it's like she feels more in
control of the home.
-Mm-hmm.
-It's like... Let me tell you guys. Two
complete... If you are married to a
teacher, you get it. If you are not
married to a teacher, let me tell you,
it's like you're-
Congratulations, maybe? I don't know.
[laughs]
Uh, no. No, no, no. I would not want to be
married to anybody else. There are so
-many benefits for you being a teacher.
-But-
-But-
-... summer Allie's here.
Summer Allie is here. It is time to party.
I'm so excited.
-Let's go.
-I just felt like y'all need to know that.
-Yep.
-Also-
She's her most organized. She's her most
free-spirited.
She is her most free spirited. She's
like... It's very... It's a weird
-dichotomy 'cause it's like-
-It really is
... she's got all the energy to clean the
house.
-Mm-hmm.
-And pick things up and keep the children
-in order.
-Yeah.
But she is also like, "Things can... Like,
we can just do whatever."
-Yeah.
-Like, "Let's go do this tonight."
-Easy-breezy.
-Let's... Yeah. Like, "Let's, let's just
-drive up to Auburn today."
-Let's just do this.
-Like, why not? Yeah. It's fantastic.
-It's wonderful.
Um, also, it is only the second time doing
this, but I was... [laughs]
-Yeah.
-These panels are ridiculous. They're
awesome in one sense that they can go away
and our house goes back to normal.
-[laughs]
-But in the other sense-
-This takes two hours for this.
-In the other sense, it's- [laughs]
-[laughs]
-I've got to, like, take them upstairs to
-my office.
-Okay, upstairs.
Which is, like, seven... It's, it's just
a- it's a-
-It's like a-
-It's a split level.
We live in a split-level home. It's like
four stairs.
It's a split level, but it, but it's not
flat. It's not flat. It's not... It's,
like, seven. [laughs] 'Cause that really
matters. But anyway.
-It apparently does.
-It's enough to be, it's enough to be
annoying, but it's worth it. But at the
same time, if anybody wants to sponsor us-
Oh.
Or if you know anybody looking to sponsor
a-
-[laughs]
-... uh-
-Accepted sponsorships. Or-
-Would it be... Would you consider this to
-be like a comedy/
-I don't know.
-I don't know what kind of pod this is.
-Also, well-
-But we will-
-... there-
-We will take sponsors.
-... eight people that listen. [laughs]
Look, if any of y'all know anybody looking
to sponsor a podcast, please help. I want
-to, I wanna buy a studio-
-I feel thirsty
... that we can drop. Where you can drop
it in the yard and I, I don't have to,
like, set things up and tear them down.
[laughs]
-That just, just the lazy man's way.
-That is the lazy man's way. All right.
If you wanted to do this, put in the work,
man.
I did put in the work. Also, I finally
found a use for an iPad. There's no-
-Sans.
-There's no adult use for an iPad until
now, which is when you're using your phone
as the camera and now you need to look at
-show notes.
-Yeah.
-Okay.
-[laughs]
Um, the thing that I want to talk about,
um... There are two things that I want to
-talk about.
-Okay.
-Um.
-I love this. This is-
-That are like-
-... such a surprise
... that are like actual topics. And then
we should probably recap the trip that we
-just had. Um, because I think-
-We can.
-I think...
-But I also-
-Go ahead.
-No, you go ahead. Sorry.
-No, fine.
-I didn't mean to cut you off.
-Cut me off.
-It's okay.
Alison, by all means. What do you have to
say?
-I just... I asked you a question earlier.
-What did you ask me?
And you did something that's probably now
become one of my biggest pet peeves with
-you.
-Oh, sweet Maria.
[laughs] That I will talk to him about
something or I'll say something, and
you'll be like, "I'm not gonna answer
you."
What do you mean? What are you talking
about?
-"I'm only gonna answer you, apparently-
-Uh. [laughs]
-... while doing this."
-I forgot. Okay.
-And I'm so-
-Let's talk about that first
-... mad.
-Let's talk about that first.
Because I legitimately want to know, and I
asked.
The only reason I didn't... Normally, I
would answer you, but I knew we were
recording tonight and you asked, like, a
couple hours before.
-Okay.
-So.
So you had all that time to give me your
answer.
-I did, but I-
-[laughs]
I wanted to wait instead, because this
is... Mm.
-This isn't fair.
-Lay it on us.
-This feels like a set-
-It's not a setup.
-Like a setup.
-It's not a setup. Bring it. Bring it,
-girl.
-Okay.
-Tell me.
-I-
-Tell me again.
-Ask-
-I only remember some of it.
-Don't do that. Don't do that. [laughs]
I... You know, summer Allie's here. She's
wanting to tackle all the projects. She's
-wanting to-
-She is wanting to tackle all the projects.
... get our house in tip-top shape, and I
was like, "Ugh, we're having some people
-over soon, and so-"
-We are on Sunday. We're gonna have-
-And, like, that just got me thinking-
-... the whole neighborhood
... of, like... Not the whole
neighborhood, just-
I mean, all the people who have kids our
age that we're, you know, are coming over
-with bouncies and-
-Okay, whatever. Anyhoo.
-It'll be fun.
-I just got to thinking, like, you know, I
-want to be a good hostess.
-Absolutely.
-And I'm like-
-A hostess with the mostess, as they say.
-I sure do, and so I'm like-
-A real Southern host.
Yes. And so that's why I got to thinking
about, like, the hallway bathroom, because
people are gonna be in there, and it was
not hostess-ready, so it just needed a
little... a little freshen. But I'm like,
"Man, we need some of those, like, guest-"
In case you're wondering, the bathroom was
-a totally fine bathroom before.
-It was-
-Allie just likes fresh and new.
-Stop. [laughs]
-Go ahead.
-We need, like, the guest towels for people
to wipe their hands off. We need, you
know-
-Guest towels
-... like, little napkins for-
One sec. For- for those of you who don't
know, which is gonna be all of you, guest
towels is like when you go to a
restaurant, and they have a little stack
-of, like, paper towels-
-That... just so that way your-
-... there
-... hand towel's not soaking wet.
So we don't let... so we don't let the
plebeians use our- our towels in our home.
-[laughs] We give them disposable ones.
-No. Imagine you're sharing one restroom
with, like, 20 guests, and everybody's
washing their hands, and now your hand
-towel's soaking wet.
-Okay. That's a fair rebuttal.
-Okay.
-I'll give you that.
So I'm thinking, like, hand towels,
little, like, cocktail napkins. I want,
you know, like... What I'm trying to get
Will to do is to design, like, a... like,
-a house logo. [laughs]
-That's what she said. "Will, I want-"
-Or, the kids, they don't-
-She didn't explain all this other stuff.
She just looks at me and says, "Will, I
want a house logo."
-I want, like, a house logo-
-I'm like, "What?"
-... so I can put it on things.
-A brand for our house? You know, like-
-Like branding.
-... kss. I'm like, "What?"
-So if, like-
-Are we burning in... this into our
-children? Like, what's going on here?
-On station-
-[laughs]
-Stop it. On, like, stationary for us, that
it's, like, on the return address on
envelopes.
-Like for a business.
-I want it on, like, matches [laughs] next
to my candles. I wa-... Sorry, there was a
noise.
-Yeah, th-
-What was that?
I don't know. Our house has some weird
noises.
-I have no idea.
-Sometimes squirrels get in our ceilings,
-and-
-[laughs]
-... it just makes a lot of noise.
-You told me that they didn't, that...
It's, like, right before bed, and you're
trying to go to sleep.
[laughs] You literally told me that they
don't.
-Uh-oh. [laughs]
-Are you kidding me?
[laughs] Sometimes, it... When you hear
the scritchy-scratchy, I'm just saying
they're on the roof, 'cause you- I just...
you need to go to sleep without worrying.
-I'm trying to do that for you.
-Well, now I'm gonna worry about squirrels
-in our attic.
-Well-
-Ugh
-... he- here we are. Life goes on.
[laughs] Anyhoo, I want a logo for, like,
our home so I can have it on things, like
print it... have some, like, Styrofoam
cups to keep on hand, and, like, the
-logo's printed on the cup. I want-
-Does this count as a business expense?
-I don't know. [laughs]
-I would like to know. [laughs] I would
-like to know.
-I don't know.
-Um-
-I just... That's what I want. I just want,
-like, a little house-
-This-
-... branding situation.
-This is-
A logo, a... Kinda, like, you know how
Southerners love to monogram everything?
-You know I love a monogram.
-Allie does love a monogram, and I d- don't
-like monograms at all.
-I don't.
-So I could get-
-So it'd, like, just a monogram for our
-home.
-Okay. So here is my thoughts about that. I
-love designing logos.
-Yeah.
-So that sounds super fun.
-I know a guy.
I would love to design a house logo for
our family, for the Pine Needle.
-Yeah.
-The Pine Needle House. The problem is, is,
like, if we move, do I have to design a
whole new one? Like-
-Hmm
-... is it specific to this place, you
-know?
-I don't know. That's... if you were a good
-designer-
-Like, is it a family design?
... I feel like... But see, here's the
thing-
-Okay.
-Like, if you were a good designer-
-Oh
-... I feel like you could do something
that, like, could translate to your next
project-
-Here's the thing
-... or something like that.
Here's the thing. Here's- here's my
question, is: you called it a house brand?
Yeah.
-So it's like-
-But we are what makes a house a home.
-So is it a family brand?
-It's a home brand. [laughs]
-Is it a family brand?
-I don't know.
-Like, is it a king-
-No.
-... the King logo?
-No, because then you're gonna do something
with, like, a crown, and I don't want
that.
-So it is something house-related.
-It's something very tied to our roots
-here.
-No steak on Mond-... It's a steak with a X
over it with Monday written above it.
[laughs]
-Well-
-All right.
-What are your thoughts on this?
-My thoughts on-
-Because I literally asked yous-
-You did
-... for you to, like, give me an answer.
-All right. My thoughts are I like it.
-Yes.
-I really do. I think that that is a nice,
little... Here's my thing. I was thinking
about this the other day, um-
Are you answering my question by taking,
like-
-The scenic route? Yes-
-Okay. [laughs]
... it's a podcast. You always take the
scenic route in a podcast.
-Or you could just answer it and move on.
-So 22 years ago... [laughs] No. No, a
couple weeks ago when we had Palmer's, uh,
dance recital-
-What? [laughs]
-Just let me... Just let me get there. It
was crazy. It was busy. We had my parents.
We had your parents, your grandparents,
-your brother-
-Mm-hmm
... and sister-in-law. Like, everyone was
there, all of the people that we are,
like, in our community, 'cause, like, all
of our daughters do dance together, so
it's, like, people that we're, like,
friends with/also acquaintances.
-Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
-Whatever. The people who we spend social
-time with-
-Correct
... where we live. And I was like, "Man,
this is so crazy, but this is, like...
-This is what it's all about."
-Mm-hmm.
"This is so great." Um, and I just loved
that moment. And, like, we're doing it
-again.
-We are.
On Sunday, we are having, like, all the
people who... Like, a lot of them go to
-St. James, um-
-Spoiler alert, that's where I work.
-That is where Allie works.
-[laughs]
It's the s... It's the school where we
send our kids, so we, like, have our
parent friends because our kids are in
classes together.
-Mm-hmm.
-So a bunch of them live in our
neighborhood, and so we're having
everybody over for, like, a little summer
bash. And it's like, boom. Like, that's
what it's all about.
-Yeah.
-Like, it's... We're... All of our kids are
getting together. We're gonna have a good
time.
-Mm-hmm.
-Um, and I love the idea... You know me. I
-love going full send.
-I know.
You know? Like, if we're gonna have people
over, if we're gonna do social events-
-I want-
-... why not have King family or Pine
-Needle branded-
-Or something
-... whatever-
-... on a cup.
-... home-branded items.
-On stationary.
-I'm all about it.
-On matches.
-Absolutely.
-On-
You... That i-... This is a 100% yes from
me.
-Oh, heck yeah.
-Oh, yeah. I'm so into this.
-I'm so pumped.
-Now, where things get...So-
-Don't do this
-... a bit, um, less interesting to me is
-like-
-Don't do this to me
... let's keep it to things that are,
like, normal use.
What would not be a normal use that I've
said?
-I don't know, but I just know-
-[laughs]
... that now that we have, like, once we
have a hou- a home brand-
-Like a coozie? Oh.
-Like, that's what I'm saying. Coozies.
Like, why do we need bra- like, why do we
need branded coozies?
-Why would you not?
-I don't know, man.
-People do it at their weddings.
-Is it- Are we a wedding?
-Baby showers.
-Are we- Once again, is this a baby shower?
No, but it's just, like, we have them on
-deck when we've got some people over-
-Man, I don't know
... and we're like, "Oh, don't your hand
to get cold."
I don't know. I don't know. I love the,
like, styrofoam cup though.
-Yes.
-That's a good one. Um, so yeah, I could be
-interested.
-Could be interested. I'll go find another
-designer.
-All right.
-I'm sure one of these people-
-Oh, like heck you will.
-[laughs]
-No, you won't.
-I'm gonna crowd source.
-[laughs]
Find me another one. Somebody better than
this guy.
Yeah, good luck crowdsourcing any design.
Anyway, I'm all in. That sounds great to
-me. I think it'll be so fun.
-Be excited about it.
And so cute. And so, wha- Okay, sorry. I-
I said full send. I'm pumped.
-Be happy about it.
-I am pumped.
-Okay.
-I'll be more happy when there's actually
-a, like, a something to show.
-Okay.
Which we will now be revealing on podcast
'cause we have to.
-Stay tuned.
-Stay tuned for King Family brand.
-I love that.
-Is it gonna be in Palmer's handwriting?
-No.
-[laughs] I know.
-This is classy.
-It's gotta be classy. Ally's a classy
-girl.
-[laughs]
-[laughs]
-Okay.
All right. So, there are two things that I
wanna talk about.
-Okay.
-One, um, I wanna talk about the thing that
you brought up about, like, kids need
mess.
-Oh, yeah.
-And then the other thing that I wanna talk
about is, um, like, being a patient
parents. Being patient
-parents.
-Mm-hmm. Yeah.
-Um, and not-
-Those go very well together
... not in the, like, sense that I think
most people are probably thinking when I
-say that. Um-
-Okay.
So, why don't we start with kids should be
messy.
-Okay.
-'Cause I think this is a good one.
-I mean, I don't... I don't know how deep-
-Fine. I will. All right
-... dive you wanna go into this. Um-
-Oh.
-Go ahead.
-I thought you said, I thought you were
-gonna say-
-Send me after it
-... "I don't know how to start this."
-Send me after it.
All right. Here's, here is what Ally, as a
kindergarten teacher, said to me one day,
-which was, "I run into-"
-Oh, well-
"... situations where I, where you
notice-"
Well, this all stemmed from a wonderful
Instagram Reel I saw.
-Did it?
-From a pediatric occupational therapist.
-Oh, interesting.
-Yeah.
-I did not know that.
-I sent it to you. [laughs]
[laughs] Uh, like I said, uh, I totally
remember exactly what you showed me.
Please. You know, um, it's just really
interesting that I think you and I discuss
a lot at the time of whatever I guess
partners do for, like, their day
-jobs.
-Mm-hmm.
Uh, I would not know about anything that
happens in, like, your line of work-
-[laughs]
-... because I get a glimpse from, like,
-the behind the scenes of what you do.
-[laughs]
-You know, like-
-Right
-... I- I- I just wouldn't know, like-
-It was hilarious. We were driving home
today from going to see my parents for the
past week.
Oh, none of those words made sense.
[laughs]
And Ally, I had some, like, work messages
come in, and I, like, Ally's like my chief
-of staff when I'm driving-
-Yeah
... where she, like, answers my work
messages based on what I tell her. And sh-
like, I, h- she's like, "No. No. Stop.
You gotta go slower."
-[laughs]
-"I don't know what any of these words
-are." [laughs]
-What is, like, this... You say what I
guess is a full sentence in your work
speak, but it... I'm like, "This isn't it.
-No." [laughs]
-[laughs] She was like, "Qu- query, like
-Q-U-E-R-Y?"
-[laughs]
"For some reason that looks weird."
[laughs]
I don't know. Something about... I swear
if you said partitioned table one more
-time to me-
-[laughs]
-... I was gonna lose it. Anyhoo-
-Oh, goodness.
But, like, with your partner, you get,
like, glimpses of how things work that you
-wouldn't know otherwise, you know?
-Right. Right. Right.
And I think, from my perspective, like,
you maybe wouldn't know a l- as much about
childhood development or things like that
if I didn't bring-
-Oh, heck no
-... some of this stuff to the table. So-
I've said this a million times, and I'll
say it again. I would be nothing as a
-parent without you.
-No, and- and vice versa.
-There's so much that I-
-We- we both s-
-Thank you for pan-
-Okay, no. For real.
-Thank you for pandering, but... [laughs]
-Okay. No. I, I mean it. But, um, I saw
this thing that was, like I said,
pediatric OT, but-
-Mm-hmm
-... um, talking about how kids need
messes. And as a lot of the time parents
are [inhales] so like, "Oh. No. No. No.
No. No. We can't do that," but their
brains-
-Right. It's messy. It's like..
-... need that sensory input.
-Mm-hmm.
-And I can tell just as, like, overall
trends sometimes with kids, um, that I
observe of... Clearly they have not
-had sensory or messy play.
-Right.
-And-
-'Cause they overreact-
-Or they-
-... when anything doesn't go the way it
-should.
-Or, or they don't interact with it. That
-is, because-
-Oh. Like, they avoid it. Right. Right
-... I don't know what to do.
-Right.
For example, you know, like, when you're
feeding a baby, um, you can tell, like,
the kids that haven't had to, like, work
on picking up food.
-Mm-hmm.
-Like, putting applesauce on, like, a baby
-tray when they're first starting-
-Mm-hmm
... letting them, like, try to grasp and
pick that up and feel that mess, like,
their brain is making connections from
that point of, like, building muscles in
-their hands or-
-Mm-hmm
... everything. Like, they need to learn
to make the mess, and there's a lot of,
you know, lot of good lessons to be
learned-
There are. There are a lot of good lessons
... that are life skills because the kids
that aren't getting their hands messy in
the applesauce aren't gonna be the kids
that, you know, get into Play-Doh and
-start building their muscles there-
-Right. Right
-... or-
-I would even say th- they're ki-... Like,
you are instilling in your child a fear
of...... a fear of messing up.
-Yeah.
-Like you're- you're- you're not instilling
-in them, like, a exploratory nature.
-Exactly.
Like, it's okay to explore. It's okay to
do things incorrectly. It's okay for
things to be, like, yucky or gross or,
like, not good for a little bit as you try
-to figure it out.
-Mm-hmm.
-And you can-
-And as your brain tries to make the map-
-It's so interesting
-... of what you're trying to do.
-Right. Right.
-Because, you know, one really fun activity
I love to do with our kids or kids in the
classroom is, and this is a great way
-just for play or for-
-Mm-hmm
... like, reinforcing whatever you're
trying to teach, um, is shaving cream.
-Like, it's a fun way to get kids to-
-Right
... you know, get some sensory input to
trace, write their letters. Maybe they're
writing what we call heart words. I won't
get into that today.
-Yeah, you're getting a little deep here.
-I'll get a little, I'll get a little deep
-into my Orton-Gillingham.
-Right. Right. Bring it, bring it back up
-for the normies.
-Sorry. [laughs] Or, you know, just, like,
-do their shapes.
-Right.
-Maybe you're-
-Yeah.
I don't know. Just anything. It's a great,
you know, sensory activity to reinforce
-what you're doing.
-Totally.
But I have seen kids or and also just
teaching Bible classes or things like
that, that it's like they- they don't
know. They can't. They don't know what to
-do. It's like this automatic, like-
-Mm-hmm
-... I'm supposed to get into this.
-Mm-hmm.
-And I'm not sup- you know?
-It's really funny. There's a parallel. I
was thinking as you're, like, talking
about this, there's, like, a parallel for
-people, like, for my job.
-Mm-hmm.
And, like, there's a parallel for, like,
the type of work that, uh, like, that we
do. And you can really tell people who
are, like, who get in the weeds-
-Mm-hmm
-... and, like, people who, like, don't
mind making something messy in code or
making messy designs, um, to get to the
-right solution.
-Mm-hmm.
And get... They don't mind getting things
wrong along the way or, like,
experimenting and trying a bunch of
different things. Whereas, like, you can
really tell the people who've, like... In
this case, it's, like, less... It's like
-they've been spoon-fed-
-Mm-hmm
... a specific architecture or, like,
they've been spoon-fed a certain series
-of, like, uh, like, approaches-
-Mm-hmm
... that's like, "This is the way you
should do it." Um, and when anything falls
outside of the bounds of that approach,
which it often does because there's
nothing that is ever the happy path when
you're doing building software, suddenly
they don't know what to do anymore. Like
you're saying, like-
-Yeah
-... they don't know how to, like, problem
-solve that or to think-
-Mm-hmm
... through it or to try and, like, figure
it out.
-Yeah.
-Because, like you said, like, they've
never gotten messy, never gotten off the
beaten path-
-Mm-hmm
-... and never, like, been forced to do
that. So I thought, when you were telling
me all this, I was just like, "Oh man,
this is so interesting," 'cause I can see
that, like, that concept parallels, like,
-very well, like for-
-Whoa
... like, creative and, like, software,
like-
-Well, it's just neat-
-... processes too
... to me. Like, the literal map it makes
from, like, being an infant-
-Mm-hmm
-... and, you know, you're getting ready to
start eating foods and you're sitting in
your highchair and your mom just, like,
-pours applesauce on the tray and you're-
-Yep
... playing with it to, like, that is
literally one of the building blocks to
ultimately putting a pencil in a kid's
hand, you know?
-Right. Right.
-And so it's just-
-Fine motor, et cetera.
-It's just really neat to see-
-Yep
-... that- that's... You know, it's
-important.
-Yep.
-Let kids get messy.
-And it par- it parallels very nicely,
like, shoehorn. Is that, uh, the right-
the right term? It shoehorns very well
into the other topic, which is, like,
patient parents, where-
-That feels wrong, but-
-I don't know. You tell us.
-I don't like that.
-The... [laughs] I don't like it either.
-I don't like that.
-Whether it's right or wrong-
-Just saying I didn't love that.
-... I don't like it. There's- there's
this, uh, thing that me and Ally feel very
strongly about, which is... And it, like,
is the reason why, like, a lot of parents
don't let their kids be messy is because
parents are in a rush. Um, and it's not
about, like, "Oh man, like, I need to be
patient when my kid throws a fit," or, "I
need to be patient when my kid, like, is
not listening to me." Like, sure. Like,
whatever. Those are all good things. But,
like, this is specifically talking about,
like, giving your children time to figure
things out for themselves and not stepping
in to solve their problems because you
are in a rush. Um, I s- I catch myself
doing this quite a bit because I get,
um, behind myself. [laughs] My own
schedule, like-
-Mm-hmm
-... I will have, like-
-[laughs]
-I will not have managed my time very well
-and-
-Time management.
-[laughs] I'll be like, "Oh yeah."
-You know when, like, people are like,
"What are your bigness, strength,
strengths and weaknesses?"
-Right.
-Um, time management goes on more of, like,
-the weakness side.
-It does not, kind of.
-[laughs]
-It definitely does. I'm very much, like,
what happens is like, "Oh yeah, it only
takes 20 minutes to get there." So I stop
-what I'm doing 20 minutes-
-[laughs]
... before I need to leave. But then
there's, like, other things I-
-You forget the, like, 10 minute-
-... Like, oh man, like, I need to get the
keys and, oh, I need to... Like, and then
I'm like, "Oh, I need to rush out the
door." And then I forget the thing that I
was supposed to take with me when I leave.
And then you got to come back and it's
-just a whole thing.
-I got to turn anyway. So this happens
with, like, kids where I'll get in a rush
because I'm supposed to get somewhere,
blah, blah, blah, whatever. And then
because of that, like, the period of time
when, like, kids are trying to put their
own clothes on and, like, they've got
to... It's so s-... Like, if there is one
thing that is so slow with kids, it's
-everything. But [laughs] it's-
-[laughs]
-... it's clothes.
-Yeah.
It's like putting... Like, when they're
first learning how to put their... And
even when they know how to put their
cloth- Like, sometimes Palmer is just,
-like, so s-... Like-
-He's so fast.
... I know you know how to put your
clothes on quickly. I don't know why this
is taking 500 years to do it. But it's
like if you rush them through it, if you,
like, rush them because you're in a rush,
like, that messes with them.
-Mm-hmm.
-Um, but also, it's like, I would just,
like, all right, we'll... Like, I'll
literally, like, grab Wilson sometime...
Like, I'd grab him, set him up. Like,
stand him there in front of me, put his
pants on, put his shirt on. He'd be trying
to-
-You'd be a pit crew for him.
-He... Right, like a... like... [laughs]
Exactly, like [laughing] a freaking pit
crew. He'd be, like, trying to run away,
like, and, like, that... Like, for
instance, he will try to, like, run off.
And instead of, like, working with him to
be like, "Hey, buddy," like, "You need to
practice standing still." Like, we are...
Like, even before when I need to help him
put his clothes on, like, I would not have
the patience to just, like, t-... let him
run off and tried to, like, talk to him
through coming back and standing still.
Like, no, I would just grab him, stand him
in front of me, and hold him there until
I got his clothes on. And, like, I will,
like... Then, like, Ally, the next day,
I'm, like, watching her do it, and she's
just letting him go off. And she's just
like, "Wilson, buddy, we've got to put our
clothes on. To do that, we need to stand
still in front of me." And, like, you can
see him, like, listening thing, and he'll
walk back and stand still, and then he'll
run off again, and she'll patiently do...
Like, it's... But then you see, like...
Give it a week of doing this, and, like,
suddenly he never runs off again. Whereas,
like-
-Yeah
-... if you just kept doing it my way, when
I'm feeling rushed or frustrated, guess
who never learns how to stand still on
their own and is always needing to be
forced into doing the things that are the
right choices? So, like, I don't know,
I-... You- you... I
notice that watching you as a parent.
Like, you take the patient approach to,
like, forcing our kids through by, like,
sacrificing something of ourselves of,
-like-
-Same here. [laughs]
I could be doing a- I could be doing a
bunch of other things right now.
-Yeah.
-Like, I could be cleaning this. I could be
doing this work thing. Uh, we could
already be leaving, you know? Like, all of
these things where it's like, "Nope."
Like, I need to put all of those needs and
wants aside for a bit because, like, the
important thing right now is, like, making
-this-
-This skill
... take longer now so that they get this
skill to do on their own later.
-Well-
-I don't know.
Thank you for saying that. I think that,
like you say, or, I've got kind of
added bonus of, like, I know what this is
going to look like-
-Mm-hmm
-... in a classroom.
-Yeah, that's true.
-Five, six years down the road, and it's...
Inevitably, you'll have... And I've seen
kids throughout my time teaching of... Who
-just legitimately don't know what to do-
-Mm-hmm
... and will not know how to put a jacket
on. Well... And I'm happy to help. That-
that is not, you know, something I'm
not... Well, I wouldn't- I wouldn't look
at a kid and be like, "Well, I'm not
helping you." But, like-
-Right, right, right
-... you just have to literally teach.
It's you're- you're- you're helping,
you're helping without doing.
-You have to-
-You know?
... literally teach them how to do it
because they're not always gonna have
-somebody there to-
-To do it for them
-... do it for them.
-Right.
You know, my kids should know how to clean
up a mess.
-Right.
-And-
But you see it these days, like, you see
kids, like, you see a kid who, uh... Like,
you'll just see something fall off a
table and the kid will just look at it and
-be like, "Hey," like, "this fell."
-This fell and-
-Like, and- and, like, pick it up.
-And, like, okay, let's pick it up
-together.
-Right.
-Let's walk it to the trash can. Let's-
-Right.
You know, so I think we try, both of us
try really, really hard to make
-sure that we're not-
-Ally's a lot better at it than I am
... always just doing for them or we're
not jumping in every little second.
-Mm-hmm.
-You know, even, like, with sibling
-squabbles.
-Hoo.
-Uh, I laugh 'cause I don't-
-Yeah
... think we've both picked up that we do
this with each other. But, like, we'll
-hear something-
-Mm-hmm
-... and either I can feel-
-I'm interested. I have no idea what you're
-talking about right now
-Will's about to go in and try to, like,
jump in and handle it, and I'm like, dive,
grab his arm.
-Yeah, oh, yeah.
-And I'm like, "Wait just a minute and
-let's see what happens."
-Yeah, yeah.
-You know, like, don't intervene just yet.
-Right.
-Or, you know, vice versa, like, I'm-
-Right
-... like, I'm getting ready to go in.
-Just kind of depends who's feeling
-emotional that day.
-[laughs] Exactly.
Like, who's on the- who's on a short leash
that day.
And so Will will be like, "Uh, uh, you
know, wait just a minute-
-Mm-hmm
-... and let's see what happens here." And
so I think... Just like it all goes back
to taking care of babies.
-Oh, my goodness, what a-
-Her first-
-Oh
-... piece of advice-
-Oh, let me tell you
-... was to just-
-... what a great-
-... stop-
-We're not gonna get into that, but-
-... and wait.
-So great, so great.
-We're not the perfect parents and we never
-will be.
-Absolutely not, no.
But one thing I can say confidently,
without a doubt, is that Will and I try-
Trying our dang hardest
-... really, really, really hard.
-[laughs] We are trying our-
-We- we give it.
-We're- we are not phoning it in. We may
-not get it right-
-No
-... but it's not gonna be-
-We're definitely getting some things
-wrong, I'm sure.
-It's- it's not gonna be because we, like,
-chose not to be parents.
-No, we-
And we chose to let other things parent
our children.
-We try really hard all the time.
-Well, once again, hate to do this, uh, for
twice in a row, but, like, this is
hilariously, like, once again, draws like
-a parallel to-
-[laughs]
... like engineering and in the fact that,
like-
-Right
-... you've got to be able to, like you're
saying, like, if somebody doesn't know how
to do something, you don't just do it for
them because they don't ever learn how to
do it for themselves.
-Yeah.
-And, like, nobody... It's like the rising
tide lifts all boats kind of thing. And it
just got me thinking, you know who would
be really good engineering managers?
Elementary school teachers. Let me tell
-you.
-[laughs]
Because sometimes a team of engineers is
just like a bunch of, like, kids.
We need to get y'all on a behavior
management system.
Like a bunch of little kids who don't know
what's going on.
-[laughs]
-And they... Yes, behavior management,
-that'd be fantastic.
-We need to get y'all to get an engineer's
-promise.
-Yes, like-
-Everybody sign it
-... every- everybody check your PRs,
-everybody give good reviews and be kind.
-Oh, no idea what that means.
Ally doesn't know what any of that means,
but...
-But I'm sure you know what it means.
-I- I do.
-I'm sure all eight of them do too, so...
-They sure do. They sure do.
-But yeah.
-All right. Well-
-That was-
-Those are the two topics I want to talk
about. We can wrap things up with a little
bit of humor. Um, so tell me a joke. No,
-I'm just kidding. Um-
-We'll...
-We- we went... [laughs] Ha-
-[laughs]
Dang it, how did I not see that one
coming? Freaking set you up.
-[laughs]
-Eh, okay. Anyway, I was actually gonna say
something that we thought was both
hilarious.
-Oh, go ahead.
-When we went to... We went to Athens,
which is North Alabama where my parents
are from, for like a whole week. And we-
-And also where you're from. [laughs]
-It- it is where I'm from. And it was so...
It's so great because my mom is, like,
literally, like, the greatest woman alive
in the sense that, like, she will bend
over backwards and do anything for anyone.
Um, and so, like, when we go there with
our kids, guess who, like, is all about
taking care of the kids and is fully
involved, and who gets actual break?
-Grandmom.
-I asked... I phrased that very-
-You- you asked two questions in one.
-I asked two- [laughs]
-So I will answer. First one is, Grandmom-
-Who gets to rest? Us.
-And then- [laughs]
-So we got to go on, like, walks. And we
used to go on these all the time before we
had kids. We would go on a walk like
every... Like, she'd get back from work
that day, and before we'd eat dinner or
right after dinner, we would just walk
around our neighborhood and just chat. And
a lot of those chats were fun little
chats about, like, starting a family.
-Mm-hmm.
-Um, but they were just great. And so,
like, we'd look at all the houses in our
neighborhood and we'd judge them and,
-like-
-I know.
-Be like, "This house-
-"I'm judging you."
"This house needs to change." Like,
"Here's what we'd do to it."
-Here's what I would do. [laughs]
-Anyway, so we- we got to, like, go on a
-walk sans children-
-Mm-hmm
... in my parents' neighborhood, and we
did the same thing. We got- walked around.
-We just-
-We got walked around.
-We got walked around.
-Who walked us around? [laughs]
We- we walked around judging all these
houses, saying all the things that we love
-to do about, like, what we would change-
-Mm-hmm
... how we would change it, all the fun
stuff like that. And we were walking, uh,
by this one... And just like to set the
scene, it had been raining for the past
-day.
-Month. [laughs]
Yeah, it'd been raining a bunch. And it'd
been raining, like, the past day. This was
probably, like, mid-morning. It'd been
raining that morning.
-It was still drizzling.
-It was- it was still a little misty, and
then it was supposed to rain again, like,
in the next hour or so. We're sort of,
like, catching a walk real quick between
the weather. And we walked by this house,
and there's this guy who walks... He's
just walking out. What did he have a...
-Did he have a-
-Yeah
-... leaf blower or-
-He had a leaf blower. He's in, like,
-button-up, collared shirt.
-Like blue jeans or whatever.
-Or ka- khaki shorts.
-Khakis. Maybe khaki shorts. Yeah.
-Ball cap. Loafers. [laughs]
-And is leaf blowing his driveway.
And it's a Saturday, I think. You know? It
was, like, Friday or Saturday.
Friday or Saturday, and it's rain- like,
it had-
-And it still-
-... it had just stopped raining-
-Drizzling
-... and is about to rain again. And the
dude is out there, like, leaf blowing his
driveway, and-
-That has nothing on it-
-[laughs]
-... because it's soaking wet.
-[laughs] And Ali just looks at me... Ali
just looks at me and says, "Oh, that just
screams that his wife asked him to do
something, like redecorate something
inside or do some, like-"
No, she's organizing. She's cleaning out
closets and be like, "Honey-
Like, it's like asking him to, like, scrub
the baseboards.
-... let's go clean the baseboards."
-Right.
-And he's like, "Oh, I've got to..."
-You know, "I've really got to do something
-on the yard work."
-Some yard work.
-Yeah. [laughs]
-And he was out there just piddling.
He was leaf blowing in between... Like, a
rainy yard.
-Rainstorms.
-And th- and then... So we, like, walk off
and we're just... Like, we just keep going
on and on about this dude, just, like,
making up stories about, like, why he
would be outside, you know.
I think that's because his wife was
cleaning.
-Yeah.
-Like, deep clean.
Deep clean. Like, he's like, "I got to
find a way to get out of this."
-Yeah.
-Um, and so we come... We loop back around
and he's still out there. Guess what he
has now? He has gotten weed killer. He has
gotten, like, a weed killer spray and is
going down his sidewalk spraying, like,
-weeds, obviously.
-The already pristine cracks of the
-sidewalk.
-Right. Look, I mean, it- it looks pretty
clean already, but I guess not. But also,
u- who sprays weed killer when it's-
-When it's gonna rain?
-... when it's already wet and is about to
rain again in, like, an hour? It was so
funny.
-Ridiculous.
-We were dying. It was so funny. We were
just, like, doing this walk, and this guy
is just, like, being the most, like-
-Textbook
-... textbook, like, "I'm not gonna... I
-got to get out of this because my yard-"
-Yes.
-"... reason" guy. Oh my goodness.
-Ah.
It was fantastic. And it was a fantastic
trip.
-It was.
-We went-
-It was a good trip.
-There's this delightful little, um, ice
cream place that is, like, one- uh, one of
one. It's called Cream De-Lite. They've
got this giant neon sign. So we got some
Cream De-Lite off the square, downtown
-Athens.
-What did the giant neon sign have to do
-with any of that?
-I'm just setting the stage for, like...
It's like a class- Like, it's your classic
ice cream joint with, like, the neon
-sign, really old school, like-
-Okay
... '70s, '80s, like, soft serve type ice
cream place. It's fantastic.
-It is really good.
-It is really good. Anyway.
-We had a lovely time.
-We had a lovely time.
-Lovely kickoff to summer.
-We did. It's summertime.
-Woo-woo.
-I think this is the end.
-Feels like the end.
-Feels like the end. Good night.
Good night. [instrumental music plays]