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CJ & The Duke have been working with ServiceNow for over a decade, so time for a fresh perspective. We brought 5 month ServiceNow beginner Rico Johnson to talk about learning from scratch, building for practice, interview performance. And then the Duke goes on a rant about years of experience for "starter" positions.
Authentic, Authoritative, Unapologetic ServiceNow commentary by Cory "CJ" Wesley and Robert "The Duke" Fedoruk
[00:00:00] Duke: All right, Corey. . What are we talking about today?
[00:00:02] CJ: Oh man, dude, we've got a new kind of interesting, uh, , take on today's podcast. We've we've got Rico with us and we're going to be talking about, , service now and with us keen perspective of a newcomer to that.
[00:00:18] Duke: yeah, facilities. You haven't met Rico. , he is been in the service now ecosystem for less than a year, right?
[00:00:24] Rico: Yeah, I'm just getting my foot, my feet wet. It's been about five, six months.
[00:00:28] Duke: Yeah, we thought it'd be interesting to take it from a perspective that Corey and I just can't have. , so we brought the perspective to you and, uh, we're just going to do round Robin questions here. So I'll start off Rico. , why don't you tell us your journey to service now?
[00:00:43] Rico: , to be honest, I mean, we never, we kind of have the same boat. I mean, just, you know, being introduced to this new, , platform and everything, but, um, me personally, , I actually was. Technology development program, um, sponsored through Goodwill, it's called breads. , and you know, I had done the program last year, but I was more interested in, you know, like Mac, , Microsoft Azure and stuff like that.
And like coming to like a front end backend web developer. But this time around like, this year, I applied for the program again, cause I didn't finish it last year, , due to some personal reasons. But, this time I came back around, they was offering this, service now?
training and not, I never heard of this.
So, you know, but I didn't want to waste the opportunity trying to, , you know, not knock the, because whenever we're going through like the presentation and just presenting it and someone was like, what? It's all a balance like, oh, this is kind of cool. So. , you know, it was a 12 week program and, , my graduated and I got my, , certified system administrator certificate, so
[00:01:41] CJ: Nice. Congratulations.
[00:01:42] Rico: Yeah, appreciate it.
I appreciate that. And I'm also have a, I have a, , voucher to get my, , HR, , my HR, I'm sorry, I can't remember the name, but the HR, , administrator certificate.
[00:01:54] Duke: Yeah, the implementer.
[00:01:56] Rico: Yeah, that's it.
[00:01:58] Duke: Cool. Yeah, there's not actually a, I don't know many HR folks. Cory, you.
[00:02:02] CJ: Yeah. I got a one good buddy who was an HR guy. , and , he and I, , chat back and forth and we've worked together on a few different projects. , but that's that she's really? Huh?
[00:02:12] Rico: Okay. Yeah. Cause I'm, I'm just like, that was, , we had like at the end near and towards the end of the, , the 12 week program, they gave us a choice to, um, either do. Learn about it. I TSM or like take the HR route for like service now go through like day to day and, implementation and trying to be, , implementation specialists.
So, but I was more interested in the HR because, you know, I just wanted to read know, reach and help out more people in and stuff like that. So I gravitated towards more than.
[00:02:39] Duke: Good on you. We need to, we need more of those people. Like we just, like I said, Corey has got a buddy. I don't know anybody like in north America. I know a couple of like overseas, but I don't know anybody in north America. Who's like out there on the market with that seal.
[00:02:52] CJ: Yeah. Shout out to Phillip Elliot, man. I'll try to connect you a Rico with him. See if maybe he's interested in doing any mentorship around that.
[00:02:59] Rico: Yeah, I just, um, I don't know if y'all had seen this post or whatever, but I think somebody in service now, I think, Robert you've seen it. , they had tagged you in like a post about the mentorship for service now and stuff like that. So I saw it in that kind of, , I signed up for the, , when you kind of comment on it,
[00:03:16] Duke: Yeah, shadow to Earl. Do I don't know how he pronounces his last name, decay. , show it to Earl. , he's , with the, , developer MVP program, and this has been his pet project for a long time. And now service now has an official mentorship channel, both for people to go and say, I want to mentor, , and for people to say, I want to be mentored.
So definitely great shout out on that Rico.
[00:03:39] Rico: Well,
[00:03:39] Duke: Uh, very timely.
Yeah.
[00:03:42] CJ: let me interject here too, right? Like how cool would it to be that, to get a show, to get a show together with Earl and we can have Earl and the duke on the.
[00:03:50] Duke: For sure, man, I take girl as a guest anytime, anywhere, man. He's a he's full of insights.
[00:03:56] Rico: Um, I'll tune into that.
[00:03:58] Duke: Yeah. ,
[00:03:59] CJ: you touched on that you initially were looking at in the Azure space, kind of like traditional it, and then you ended up in service. Okay. Do you think that you made the right choice? ,
[00:04:08] Rico: oh, no, I don't feel like I made the wrong choice because service now is , I mean, if you're a administrator, doesn't really deal with that much, coding, not that many scripting, but, I still am interested in being a, software engineer and developer.
So I'm actually taking like, Leon Knoll. He teaches a hundred days of tech class and he basically teach you. HTML, CSS and JavaScript, which I'm pretty, mid mid-level with HTML and CSS, but I really just want to learn like JavaScript so I can, get deeper with the service now developer role.
[00:04:37] CJ: those languages will serve you well in a service now. and SRS eco system. especially in the JavaScript stuff. , but you know, HTML, CSS as well, right when service portal and, , some of these new newer UI user interface as a service now is going to bring it to the forefront.
[00:04:51] Rico: And I don't want, I don't want to, I'm sorry to cut you off, but my mom likes, I found out like my mom had a bar tenders, license and I'm just like, why aren't you a bartender? why don't you just have this and not using it? So.
If I have something like a certificate, cause I got my, I tell my ITL for.
[00:05:06] CJ: oh, nice.
[00:05:07] Rico: Yeah.
the certify, since I'm administered, like I missed it before, so I'm like, I'm interested in using it. Like I'm trying to get into the it career field. So any entry way, , any way that I can, I'm definitely gonna try to take it and then, pivot.
[00:05:22] Duke: So that actually rubs into a question that I have on my list is , how did they teach you? Like where you just were you building stuff within the apps they were teaching
[00:05:31] Rico: So the program, , like I said, I was pretty sore. It's usually 14 weeks, but at this, cohort, this time, it was like 12 weeks. So basically the first month we were learning, , pretty much like stuff just to get that out the way. First week of October, we were learning just, , about the fundamentals of.
And just the basics of service now, like what it is and all the possibilities you can do with it. Classes were from Monday to Thursday, five 30 to eight 30 Monday through Wednesday. It would just be like working with service now.
And then Thursday would be like a, Personal development, how to interview and, managing your financials and stuff like that. So, that's how the pro that's how it worked. And then I'll say around first week of November, then we got into what is it to be like an implementation specialist?
And then, the two service paths that they wanted this to take either an HR role with the ITSs.
[00:06:18] CJ: So you said you focused the first week on like the soft skills, how to interview. you mentioned like financial skills and can you dive in a little bit more on that?
[00:06:26] Rico: Yeah.
So, um, like I said, the tech verse was partnered with Goodwill, so their whole, missing was just to, bring like people. Who's not they're financially leaders trying to give them the skills, the, it skills to, you know, break into the career field and like in generational curses or stuff like that.
Our structure was also like, somebody who worked with like a center and stuff like that. So it's just not like random people. it's like actually people Inside the career. And they also, actually partnered with service now on their sensor.
So it was, just different people, different professionals that, can give us as much knowledge as they can to, just give us personal development skills, like, you know, once you get a job in it, you know how to manage, your financials and stuff like that. And, how to interview and how to conduct yourself in the office.
I know we're, we're working like pretty much remote, but you know, just still just the professionalism of it. And.
[00:07:12] CJ: Yeah, it was really interesting to me too. mainly because from, from the perspective of, how to interview or no. being able to sell yourself in an interview is one of those incalculable skills that hardly ever get taught. you know, especially in, in the service now world, you really only get one chance at this stuff sometimes, right?
Like, you know, there's a job out there and you get selected to interview for it, right? Like you're going to go in there. You got like an hour to make these people love. and being taught how to do that. I feel like there's often not a lot of focus on that.
And then, as like a generality or broad based, right? Like how to interview and then you get even deeper and like how to interview from a service now perspective, because you're often not just doing service now work, right? you're doing it as, and work, in a service now.
And knowing how to combine all of that and talk that talk and being able to, , get the folks on the other side of the table to understand that you, can actually solve their problems using the service now platform, but also speak the language that they're speaking when they're, documented to the problems that they have , is really key.
[00:08:11] Rico: just real quick, personal experience with that. Before the program ended, we were in the process of interviewing with, essentially in service now they had like, different employers come in and, talk about their company to really use like service now, the other others, which is like, entry-level it service desk roles.
Well, I had a chance to, get interviewed with, service now and, you know, I'm freaking out because I'm just like, this is my big, you know, I've never had like a, , I T interview. And I don't know, I didn't know how I was going to set up, what was going to look like and I mean, it was kind of weird, but, the first round it was, you know, just introduction to who you were and why do you want to work for century?
It was like a phone call then the second round I'm expecting more technical stuff. And I was stressing out, trying to figure out like, how to talk about and everything. And the second round, I mean, he was pretty much just telling me about the, position and I was interviewing for a technical consultant, and then I made it to the third round and I'm just like, oh shit.
[00:08:58] CJ: Nice.
[00:09:00] Rico: Yeah. Just like, oh man. And then all this is why it was happening. I still haven't had my CSA I got it like December.
[00:09:06] CJ: wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. So you made it to the third round of interview with Accenture without your CSA. And with, at this point, what like three months of experience with service now,
[00:09:15] Rico: Yeah.
[00:09:16] CJ: dude, that's incredible.
[00:09:18] Rico: Pre-sold I mean, um, it was with service now. Um,
[00:09:21] CJ: was service now directly with the mothership.
[00:09:23] Rico: yeah, so
[00:09:25] CJ: Even better.
[00:09:26] Rico: I gave myself a pat on the back, but then pretty much the third interview, he was asking me it was a pretty good interview, but, I kinda saw he had an issue or hesitated. Cause I told him like I was in the process of getting my, CSA and , , he was telling me, they give you like two, three months to attain it. So I'm just like, and that's the timeframe. Like I'm going to have it by that time. And I told him the next week I was going to, I took the test and I passed it. But unfortunately I didn't get the job, but you know, I made it to the third round.
So I'm pretty, I'm blessed and happy about that. So.
[00:09:54] CJ: yeah, man, I'm making it sort of third round of interviews with the mothership. awesome. Right there
[00:09:57] Duke: it is very, very good. Hey, what's been the hardest part of it all so far.
[00:10:04] Rico: Yeah,
the hardest for me is just the I'm scripting of it. Trying to learn a script. That's the only big challenge left that I want to, hurdle getting the practice to which, I just found out. I kind of knew about it before, but I didn't really have time to like go deep into it.
Cause I've been so busy with work and trying to pass a CSA and everything. the developer learning plan and stuff like that. So I've been going through the learning plan for, service now, administrator and developer and stuff like that.
I had to like, get those skills and what not. And it's pretty awesome. I did like one last night and it was just , So self explanatory, I'm just like, oh, this is like, I'm actually like, doing it like, but I took, I took your advice, Mr. Robert. I reached out to you on group.
Me, you were give me some advice like that. And I was just taking it, trying to build like different applications and stuff like that.
[00:10:45] Duke: Corey did you invite Mr. Robert to this again? You just call me Rob buddy. It's fine.
[00:10:55] Rico: Sorry. Sorry.
[00:10:56] Duke: it's okay, man. It's cool. It's cool. I'm just,
[00:10:59] CJ: Yeah, but you know what?
[00:11:01] Duke: That's the name of the game though? Right? just build stuff. Like, I think people are like, so concerned about, I got to build it, right? No, you, don't not when you're learning, that's almost not the point.
[00:11:13] CJ: a drawback, right? It sets you back on your path if you get everything right. because typically people learn from their failures, right? you learn from getting things wrong and then figuring out what you got wrong and then fixing the thing that's wrong.
And then now you know how to do that thing. so you can, on the next time, you'll get something else wrong in a different place, further along in the path. Right? I think a lot of people , have this fear of failure, way too early in the process. Right? Like you, you really want to go in there.
You want to, you just want to tinker, you was wanting to get in there, get your hands dirty. You want to, you know, beat your head against the wall a few times. I mean, all of that, right? Like it's yeah, yeah. Just do it.
[00:11:53] Duke: And then the thing I always liked when I was mentoring people and having them build stuff is how they would perceive some of the tools available to them in a vacuum.
[00:12:02] CJ: Yeah,
[00:12:03] Duke: You know what I mean? It's like, why did you use this function for that? oh, cause it worked, you know?
[00:12:08] CJ: right.
[00:12:09] Duke: you kind of learn something about the, you know, if you walked in on somebody hammering in a nail with a screwdriver, you know what, you might think what's wrong with you, but they just don't, they don't have a hammer yet.
This is a
[00:12:21] CJ: Right. They don't even know the concept of our hammer yet. Right. They just know they got to get the screw in it and they got to get the nail and, and the wood.
[00:12:28] Rico: Yeah. Now what's crazy. Is while we were learning, like the fundamentals, we were just going module by module, like, introduction to user interface and then, you know, just like chapter by chapter, but you know, I'm doing like the learning plan.
building tables. in the application navigator, but then like you have studio, you can literally do everything in the studio and it takes literally like a breeze. I'm like, this is amazing. So I
[00:12:48] CJ: was no studio when I was coming
up.
[00:12:53] Duke: guy. There was no workflow when I was coming off. Execution plans, somebody. Oh, damn. Those were good.
[00:13:01] CJ: Yeah, it's interesting. Ricoh that you're diving in, like all in, on the studio and it is also easy to do things there. I didn't have that opportunity. It's one of those things. when I mentor people, I probably should move a little bit more towards the studio then the old school way of, me thinking about things.
[00:13:16] Rico: And then also with the studio too, while you're developing something, for the interface, you know, you can also be doing something for the mobile app too. I'm just like, it's like so many things you can do. It was just blowing me away.
[00:13:27] CJ: how do you deal with that? That there being so many different things you can.
[00:13:30] Rico: Honestly. I'm just trying to take it one day at a time. Just, just try to learn something I can catch on like real quick and then. Do it like repetition wise to get better at it. So I don't have to, you know, look at the book or, look at the learning plan and try to see like repeated steps and stuff like that.
So keep repeating, like that's how I passed my, CSA, like the first time. I took it, I felt confident going in, but when I got to the test The wording and just the structure of it. It was just like, yo, you literally have to read the whole book the past, the CSA exam.
So the second time around, I was literally just reading like chapter, every night just kept going over and over again until I finally got.
[00:14:08] CJ: I'll tell you to CSA was kinda tough for me. and it was tough for me because I refer to a lot of the things in service now, not like service now refers to them and, having to memorize like the proper service now name and the proper service now classification of these things, having to memorize that.
And ensure that I had this stuff at, um, you know, easily attainable on my brain was probably like the harder part of the CSA. It's like, I'd been doing this stuff for so long and, some of the terms had evolved over time that I, you know, my, my, uh, my internal library, it was a little, a little bit.
[00:14:42] Rico: Yeah.
[00:14:43] Duke: I had the same kind of, I think I was in the same boat as you Rico. The hardest part for me was the scripting. , well, I think I learned about being a bit of a developer I've learned on service now. Like, I didn't know a lick of JavaScript, prior to, and at least I was blessed.
I was kinda like, I was already in the job and it's like, Hey, everybody's got to learn the service now thing, like right now, like yesterday, so I got to learn the JavaScript on the job, but I can't stress enough. The importance of once you've learned the JavaScript concept, like try and use it right away.
[00:15:13] CJ: Yes, I can. I completely agree with you. I also learned the JavaScript on the job. you know, learning service now. I hadn't written a lick of JavaScript before I became the owner of the platform. And, but I had done things like. You know, windows, command scripts, right? Like, so going all the way back to the Dawson.
I was trying to get like doom to work and, allocate in, you know, extended memory and all that kind of crap. Right. You had your floppiness, you know, I'm dating myself here at real. It really, really what'd. You did, you had like, you know, your set of floppy does, and depending on what game you want to play, right.
You had different scripts and you had different floppy disks, right? So you have one desk that you'd load and you'd have different, a script is built out to, allocate memory, just so, so that you can get like, duke Nukem to work. And you had another one where you. Like civilization and work and you, you know, and so you have to have your scripts kind of tailor.
So I wasn't like completely foreign to the idea of scripting, but I'd never seen JavaScript before. Honestly, it was like one of those things I never fancy myself as a developer to be quite sure.
[00:16:10] Duke: Uh, Rico. D do you have anything like, kind of a pet project in build on your PDI?
[00:16:15] Rico: actually the idea you recommended me with a UFC fighter. I kind of started working on that, a couple of days ago. Yeah, I'm fine. I'm almost done with that one, but, , like I said, I've, been busy this week. Cause I just, I literally had an interview today for a junior service now, developer, role.
And then I've got another interview tomorrow with this center, for like a business analyst position. So
[00:16:37] Duke: Nice.
[00:16:38] Rico: I think it's like an apprentice program and stuff like that.
[00:16:41] Duke: Well, tell us your, tell us your plans for this UFC up.
[00:16:45] Rico: Uh, Come on like the application.
[00:16:48] Duke: assuming I'm not putting you on a spot, like, what do you have planned? if you were going to finish building it, what do you, what features are you going to put in it,
[00:16:54] Rico: I definitely like the fight cards, just like the, people in attendance, equipment, this whole. And just sending an email out to, you know, all the people in the company that, wants to go and stuff like that. And I'm just going wild with it?
really just trying to make it as like real realistic is, um,
[00:17:12] CJ: Tell us about how you're using the service now. instance itself and the technology and the service now, instance, to kind of build this thing out, they give me, give me some details. So it sounds.
[00:17:20] Rico: Yeah, so, um, like I said, just using the studio. Well, I mean, like before, before, um, I was doing like the learning plan. I was just like literally using, everything in the application navigator and just, , just for devil around like my personal instance, , you know, just making sure, that I can have.
different like applications and everything, just so, like I said, the people in attendance and just like having like a list of like, people putting in requests to make sure they can, come to the event and stuff like that. I'm just, I'm literally just like trying to make it like a assimilation of like a sin.
, I'm just trying to have like people when the event is come to life and stuff, like.
[00:17:55] CJ: Nice. Sounds pretty cool. So ideally your next steps in your career journey with service now, right now, you've got your CSA. You're interviewing for a few positions. Where do you want to be right now? Where do you see yourself? Uh, where do you want to be in say 18 months from now, and it doesn't have to be positioned for specific, but just talk in general about maybe, you know, the knowledge that you hope to attain, like the things that you hope to be.
[00:18:21] Rico: just really, you know, working it out, just learning as much as I can. I don't mind being an administrator or an analyst and associate. I remember the duke, you know, he was, when I first met him on like, the group, me, not a group, I'm sorry. Um, slack,
[00:18:35] CJ: Well, now, now who's dating themselves.
[00:18:39] Rico: slack. Yeah, Um, you know, he was telling me, just the pretty much like any, entryway and then just work myself to develop because that's, that's what I really want to do. I like creating things. I like, dabbling and, just trying to figure out different, you know, coding problems and how to fix, backend issues and stuff like that.
So I'm just an investigative type person. So I'm just like looking to try to see, how things can improve. I'm constantly trying to think of like how things can improve, like, I personally in and like, working wise. So, you know, I'm always a thinker, so you're not just like, I just like keeping busy.
So, just being a developer, that's what I really want to do. And just grown with that position.
[00:19:14] CJ: Yeah, the great thing about service now and be in wanting to be a developer is that all you need to do is identify problems that can be solved using service now, and then you're right. I didn't go and do it because service now gives you the ability to have that personal developer instance for free.
and it gives you the ability to utilize that in practically any way that you want. And so it, basically no roadblocks, right? In the way of you becoming whatever you want to be inside the service now ecosystem, from the perspective of having the tools upfront,, there's a lot of jobs where getting access to the tools, is the roadblock itself.
Like if you're in the Cisco world, you know, you need access to a switch and a router, to go in and actually get. manipulate things. I mean, I, they probably have virtual versions of these things now, but at least back in my day, again, dating myself, right? Like you needed the physical, you need the physical lab to actually put some of this stuff into play with service.
Now you don't right. Like, I mean, you literally need a web browser and internet and, and, and a problem to solve. And you're good. So I really love that about that. And, and I think that bodes well too, for where you want to be, you know? Cause all you need to do is identify like cool problems. If you ever have, have a problem identifying those.
I mean, LinkedIn has a ton of them and then you go over a hacker news. They always have a ton of cool problems that somebody is trying to fix or something to give you inspiration for something to, bang on. So.
[00:20:35] Rico: five years wise, like, I, I just want to have like enough skills where I can, build up my own, client base and just pretty much work for myself because I don't want to work for nobody for the rest of my life. So, I mean, it's just honest, but I put it like enough for work and, you know, I try to learn as much as I can to just, really get to that point because, that's where I really want to do with my time and everything and
[00:20:54] CJ: yeah. I consider myself unemployable at this point, I'll tell anybody that work with other people as us is over. Uh, but yeah, that's after having worked for other people for 20 years,
[00:21:06] Rico: Well, I'm 27 right now. And I'm just like, I always had this, like, I always had that plan. Like I always like struggled with that, you know, just being at a job and, I'm the type of person, growing up, like, I was pretty much good at anything. I did. it wasn't an issue that I could do it.
It was just do you care enough? Or, do you really want to do it? So it was just like the frustrating for me. Cause I was. figure out like, you know, what I really want to do, cause I'm so good at anything, but finally we knew when I sat down, I was just like, yo, I really like, doing it stuff.
But you know, my work background doesn't really, provide that. But you know, I would go to jobs like Xfinity and I'll do stuff there. I was a sales consultant, but you know, I will ask, the field technicians, anything, , tech wise and stuff like that, even developers Inifiniti what they do and, just trying to connect with them and stuff like that.
[00:21:48] CJ: No, no, I hear you. And I love , that you went out and sought out, , bigger challenges, And came over to the service now area, , where, , we value people who have that mindset, right. And that skill. Of being able to outperform and loving the view, the problem, right.
And solutioning the problem and, you know, helping out the client those, all of the soft skills, That are valued here in this ecosystem. And putting those in display on display when you're interviewing will serve you. Well, I think, because those are things that I have found people look for, when I'm interviewing myself.
[00:22:21] Rico: And that was a crazy, like with that service now interview, like, he was pretty much telling me the same thing, he said, you know, I was, sounded like a good fit at the company and everything. I'm thinking I got the job, you know, like, nah, if I got that, I got the email and then it was crazy.
I even, emailed him, while I sent him a message on LinkedIn just to, um, connect and just ask them, what more could I have done? For the next interview, you know? Cause that was like my first big it interview. the main issue was I just didn't have my CSA at the time.
I'm just like really?
[00:22:45] CJ: right. Well, you have it now, right?
[00:22:47] Rico: Yeah. But I mean, I literally got the certificate a week later from my interview on
[00:22:52] CJ: Have you, have you followed up with him, directly and say, Hey, you know, with, uh, picture of your certificate as a, Hey, I got this now keep me EMI.
[00:22:59] Rico: yeah. I sent him a LinkedIn message. He hasn't read it yet. Unfortunately.
[00:23:02] CJ: Yeah. Well, that's one of the things, right? Like you, you always doc, follow up occasionally in those situations, like if the only thing was walking, it was not having a certificate.
Well, here's a certificate, you know, keep thinking about me.
[00:23:11] Rico: And I'm just like, really? I'm just on LinkedIn. I'm just trying to, Um, following every, post that, the duke makes or, I think, I think we're, we're friends now. Corey owned on LinkedIn.
[00:23:20] CJ: Yeah, we connect it yesterday. Yeah. Yeah. And I kind of stocked your profile a little bit and events that has. I'll tell you what I found impressive. I found impressive that you went from, you know, a retail environments will service now environment in a relatively short amount of time. I found that impressive too, that you attain the certification, also in a very short amount of time, and we just did a.
We just did a, interview with the folks over at now learning. And, uh, one of the things that surfaced and that talk was how, once you get those service now certifications to CSA, to CIS Riley, you essentially can write your own ticket, you know? And so you're halfway there, right?
Like, I mean, what a CSA, I think, you know, you'll find a junior level position, you know, really, really quickly. And then, when you get that CIS, I mean with the given state of the industry right now. you're going to be gold. I think ultimately, I mean, especially if you're looking at the HR side of it, cause that's even more, sought after in complex.
, part of the ecosystem, you know, you're going to put yourself in a position to really be a desirable, person out there on the, on the. And so I think it's important for folks out here who listen, who are listening, To know that, Hey, these certifications matter, they get you in the door they get the interview going and, and they'll get that. They'll get the job for you too.
[00:24:34] Rico: I appreciate that. I kind of want to ask all this question cause I'm just like, uh,
[00:24:38] CJ: yeah, go for it.
[00:24:39] Rico: That's how me and the duke kind of connected. I was, um, I sent him a message. I think he misses me. And, you know, I was just asking him, advice for applying to like, entry level position, because I'm what I was noticing is I had these certificates and obviously I'm not like.
That naive to think. Well, yeah, just give me a job, but I'm still, applying to these companies and they're asking for two plus years, five plus years entry level position, well, damn, you know, kind of had my hands tied behind me. So that's why I kind of reached out to him to just try to see, you know, what best way I can kind of close that gap. And so them that, I'm eligible or I can do these things. , but just don't have that experience. So, you know, that's why, like, in my free time, I'm just no building as much, as I can and the platform and everything.
[00:25:17] Duke: the key from my perspective is the next best thing to actual experience is stuff you've built.
[00:25:25] CJ: Absolutely agree.
[00:25:26] Duke: I just start building anything, right. Anything that you're interested in, anything that, you know, enough to. Ponder, how does this work work? But then as you start getting more confidence, just try and think of everyday business problems.
Or like Corey said, go to the, where was it where they have
[00:25:41] CJ: Yeah, hacker news.
[00:25:43] Duke: yeah. And just take a crack at it. because. What people are actually saying when they say they need somebody with experience is somebody who knows how to detect the outcomes needed and then deliver those outcomes. And so, I haven't seen a single place where somebody was like, man, that dude was really impressive with the way he talked about solutions and dah, dah, dah, but Aw, man, he didn't have the two years experience we wanted. It doesn't really happen. I think people are so desperate for the towel if you can find a path to credibility that makes up for the years, also pet peeve and Corina with grinds my gears,
[00:26:19] CJ: Duke.
[00:26:20] Duke: I can fucking five years experience for, for an entry-level. how are you going to link? Okay.
Service now has been around for 15. So you've been around for like 33% of this products, total life. And that qualifies you to be a beginner.
[00:26:39] CJ: Yeah, that's a, that's a senior at that point.
[00:26:41] Duke: all the swear words, man. It just, I can't understand it.
[00:26:44] CJ: Piggybacking on that. Right. What I really hate is that when, uh, when they want you to have like three years in a module that just got released like eight months ago,
[00:26:52] Duke: Yes. Yeah.
[00:26:54] CJ: it's like any eight years in service portals. Like what.
[00:26:58] Duke: Come on now.
[00:26:59] CJ: some of these jobs backs at, don't make a whole lot of sense. I'll tell you what the job specs that do make a lot of sense though. You know, those that I've seen you put out duke, shout out to the duke, doing his thing here on, uh, hiring and getting folks placed in.
Premium positions, right? this is an unfunded plug, but you know, it does make a difference. Right. I've seen some of the things that you've put out in the ecosystem and some of the things that others have put out in the ecosystem and, and just largely, right. Like you have a pulse on it, you know how to highlight the aspects of a job or the aspects of a. then make a difference to the overall, project. And I think that's one of the things that you have to kind of learn how to filter out, unfortunately, in this ecosystem, because There's so much demand out there and there's not a whole lot of, time and a whole lot of expertise on the folks who are, writing the job specs. So you don't always kind of know what's what you get a.
[00:27:50] Duke: Like I forget who said it on the, dev community? I think it was, Maria, Gabriela or Ashley, But it was, it was really profound. It was apply and let the company decide. Don't let, don't let anything say like, oh, I don't have two years, so I'm not going to apply. Right. You just, go,
[00:28:07] CJ: Yeah. If you think it's a fit, go for it. Don't they know.
[00:28:10] Duke: exactly.
[00:28:11] Rico: mean, I I've been shooting my shot. I don't need.
[00:28:13] Duke: There you go.
Yeah.
[00:28:15] CJ: go shoot your shot. I like that. Yeah, let's go with that one. and that's what is about,
[00:28:18] Duke: Yeah, because the job recs aren't necessarily written by the person who needs the resource either. Like I have a client that, and they have this corporate standard, this is what a developer means. And so if you want to call somebody a developer on the job rec you have to put these things in the job rec I'm not kidding.
They have cold fusion on there. Okay.
[00:28:43] CJ: you're not going to get this. You're not going to get this, you know that right. It's like, you're telling me, you're telling them, right. Like, you're not going to get this.
[00:28:50] Duke: they know that the people who are on the front lines know that they're not, they're just like we have to put it in there because HR or whatever. Um, but
[00:28:59] Rico: Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm sorry to cut you off.
[00:29:01] Duke: no, that's okay.
[00:29:02] Rico: yeah, my mentor is, he was actually telling me, some of these people don't even update like their job descriptions, for the job they're posting for it.
And I'm just, wow, really? It's crazy.
[00:29:10] Duke: I'd never let a job description scare me away and basically when I'm reading it, I'm like trying to figure out, do they want an admin, a developer or an architect? read the tea leaves a little bit, decide if I want to. And then just. And oh, for God's sakes, people don't volunteer weaknesses.
[00:29:26] CJ: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:29:27] Duke: Oh man. I had a chat with a good friend today and he got asked to do like some facilities management stuff on service now. And he was like, oh, I can't, I already, I have only done like space management, which isn't the same thing. I'm like, dude,
[00:29:41] CJ: what do you mean you can't?
[00:29:42] Duke: don't disqualify yourself. Tell them what you've done. That's close to it.
Let them just.
[00:29:48] CJ: Exactly. Yeah.
[00:29:49] Duke: they're not stupid. They'll find it out and you're not lying to them. You're just kind of like showing them where you want. Like at the time people are so desperate that if you've done something, that's like a cousin of the thing that they want done.
[00:30:00] CJ: Yes. And
[00:30:02] Duke: a rant.
[00:30:02] CJ: no, no, but you're right. They'll do. I mean, and let's be real. Like a lot of us have an extensive amount of experience on the platform across the platform, but we don't have everything on a platform, but the platform is. Right. It doesn't mean that I can't necessarily go in and pick it up in a day.
Doesn't mean I can't go over to now learning. Right. And, and look up the course on this and get this done in like two or three days and be like, oh, okay. I get it now. Right. And because not everything is as, specific as HR. Now, if someone's like, Hey, I need someone in HR and you've never done HR before.
And I don't know about that one. Right. And that's only because at the vertical of HR requires industry specific knowledge around it. And you know, when you get into that, it's like it, but this important to know, what skills translate on the platform versus what don't. And I think that's what you were getting at duke
[00:30:49] Duke: Yeah. All right. Uh, it looks like we're at time. So, , Rico, thanks for joining us today. any last, statements or questions?
[00:30:56] Rico: anybody that. interested in service now. it's a great community. It's a great platform, great career fields. I'll definitely, it's not in there. Don't even like overthinking it. Cause if you think about like the, some of the simple skills that you've acquired, like I said, I came for retail.
So just working with people and just having that, customer service skills and those soft skills to like, you know, translate into tech. go for it. It can literally apply to anybody and this is like really not hard to learn stuff. You just put time into it.
you can really, change your life. So definitely go off.
[00:31:24] Duke: That's good to hear that after like this many years. Hey Corey, it's still that way.
[00:31:28] CJ: absolutely, absolutely. Cause I, it absolutely changed me.