Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Welcome to the 'Lead Smarter. Not Harder' Podcast by David Kent, your window into the minds of visionary leaders, trailblazing innovators, and savvy business owners.
Get ready to immerse yourself in the captivating stories and invaluable lessons from the best and brightest minds in the business.
welcome to Lead Smarter
the podcast where you'll hear powerful
no nonsense conversations about leadership
with today's top experts
and real world leaders like yourself
get the inside strategies
insights and secrets
they've Learned on the journey to lead smarter
let's dive in
today's guest is Aurora Dawn Benton
founder of astrapto and author of Exponential Impact
where she helps organizations harness human potential
to drive meaningful social and environmental change
Aurora works at the intersection of sustainability
and leadership but not at the policy level
her specialty is the micro
the everyday behaviors conversations
and habits
that determine whether change actually sticks
from reducing food waste in hospitality
to guiding founders through real change management
she challenges leaders to stop relying on structure
alone and start leading through people
in this conversation
we unpack why policies fail without buy in
the difference between power and force
and how small consistent
leadership behaviors can create outsized impact
let's get into it
hey Aurora
thank you for joining us on the podcast
I'm really excited to get a chat with you again
and I've enjoyed getting a chance to get to know you
leading up to this and just talking to you about
your perspective on leadership
really the human element that you focus on in it
and the things that you bring to your own clients
and getting them to just improve their own leadership
for their own organizations
and I really would love to just jump into
some of the things we've talked about
specifically we've talked about leading through people
and not just plans
how do leaders get misled into thinking
structure or policy
will fix issues that are actually human in nature
well
I think it's natural for leaders to want to do anything
that's efficient that saves time
and I think as humans it's easy to feel like
well if I get it and I want it to be efficient
and I understand the reasons for doing this
then everyone else will too
but that's not the way humans and relationships work
and so
the structure and the policy are really important
so just for the context right
I do sustainability consulting
so social and environmental initiatives
a lot of times
these are new structures and new policies
so not only is it maybe a new thing to do
and you can't underestimate
the amount of time it might take to teach
someone to regroove
a neural pathway that's been around for
perhaps a long time I often am in situations with
in the hospitality industry
especially where people have been in their jobs
or in their type of job for a long time
and not a lot has changed
in the way that job is performed
in a long time these are very human oriented jobs
because it's hospitality
you can only automate that so much right
right and so the neural pathway
the muscle memory the habit
all of that sort of force of nature
that can override your best laid intentions right
so without the buy in I often tell
you know executive chefs
I'll say you know
like your best laid intentions
and your best plans and policies for food
waste prevention can be overridden by
by one ornery influential banquet captain
who calls the kitchen screaming for more chicken
even though we don't need more chicken
he thinks that he needs more chicken
because he's been doing this for a long time
and he thinks he knows what people will eat
even though demographics have changed
the way people eat at events has changed
so there's all of this context and information
and research and strategy
that people at a line level are really not privy to
and so the person who's setting the structure
and setting the policy knows all that
so right of course
it makes sense to them
they have the demographic data that says
people are eating smaller portions of this
or less of that but that is not often conveyed
to those who
actually have to touch and handle the food
and obviously you know
there's a wide variety of industry perspectives
and context
I'm talking specifically about food and hospitality
but you can apply this to anywhere
a human being is part of the equation because right
people just have their own ways of thinking like well
this is the this is what we should be doing
this is the way we should be doing it
and so there's this you know
if there's a lack of really involving people
training people getting their buy in on it
then I'll
I'll tell you another great example of this that I
when I first started doing this particular work
I remember about 10 years ago
green cleaning in hotels was really taking hold and
and spreading and that was yeah
you know really accelerated during Covid
and anyway um
I have been in hotels where the housekeeping staff
will bring in products from home
because they don't think that the green cleaning works
and unfortunately
what happens is they're not properly trained or given
they're they might be trained like hey
with this cleaner you only need to squirt once
but because they don't smell
what they're used to smelling
with strong cleaners they spray spray spray spray spray
which makes the right cleaner not work
and so then they're like well
this just doesn't work
and they bring in stuff from home
and so it's such a great example of like okay
all you know
all the reasons
why you should want to do green cleaning
it's better for the for the humans
it's like housekeepers get really bad like ear
nose and throat issues and all kinds of stuff
everybody should want this right
like this is a win win win across the board
but yet like there are these like sort of visceral
intuitive things like how a cleaner smells
that just blew the whole thing up right
and so no structure or policy is gonna predict that
right only until you interact with humans
and watch how they behave
when new ideas are rolled out
unless you have a conversation with them to understand
what are your concerns
then you you end up with situations like that
and you think at the top like yes
we've rolled out green cleaning
have you though on paper you're buying the products
but have you because I can tell you what I'm seeing
in the back of house closets
when I tour hotels well
you just kind of described
one of the things I wanted to ask you is like
what do you think like
causes leaders
underestimate the complexity of working with humans
and you kind of described obviously
there's the idea at the top
that is based on how you
maybe want to be presented to the public
or what you're trying to do with your organization
and then there's this disconnect
like you just described
between what you're trying to accomplish as a leader
and then obviously there's these human elements
of trying to get your organization
to come along behind you and to really I
I think include them in the
I think maybe including them in the process
and having them aligned yeah
I can see as a leader myself
that's I'm in a small organization
that's super hard to do my
I almost think that my biggest
responsibility as the leader is not necessarily like
secondarily it's to get the client
to buy into what I'm trying to do
but primarily
it's to get my team to buy in what we're trying to do
yeah how do you think
what do you think causes that disconnect for leaders
well I think it's it's yeah
so it's gonna depend a lot on the context
and probably a lot on the leader
so for example in startup environments
it's a constraint and capacity issue right
like usually
most startup leaders that I am familiar with
and I've worked with startups for a long time
is mostly they really care about their team
and really want to be close
even if they're super passionate about
solving a problem or a product or service
they also are very excited about the
the family
they've brought around them in the beginning
to be part of this seeing they're starting right
so they wanna spend a lot of time with
that's the way I feel
I wanna spend a lot of time with my team
and especially now that we're all virtual
and a lot of times
our teams aren't even in the same state as us
it's it becomes harder
but also in the larger corporate environments
or even midsize companies
you start to get into the hierarchy and the
the sort of control
mechanisms that have been designed into work for
centuries or at least a century now
and a lot of those management principles that
that I Learned in school are
hopefully no longer being taught quite as much
because that we're
they're outdated quite frankly
sure but
but that culture right
so sort of boomers Gen X
which is me and probably you know
a little bit the
the millennials have adopted that sort of like
well it's just
it's just the hierarchy and it's just the
we have to answer and you have to
you know sort of kiss the butt above you kind of thing
and that and there's
there's value in that
in that you want people to be consistent
you want continuity you want compliance
and sometimes you have to have
control and hierarchy to be able to do that
but unfortunately control and hierarchy
especially in a not to get super
um touchy about this
but especially in a sort of toxic
masculine kind of corporate culture
which sometimes exist there's very
much a control and hierarchy kind of mentality
and there's no room in that for upward conversations
or up you know
like managing up the concept of managing up
there's no room for those conversations
there's no tolerance for those conversations
it's very much a do what I say
and I think probably the overall culture reflects that
that's typically where you'll see a more uh
toxic corporate culture come in
so I think the more a leader understands
that the best laid plans must factor in
that human element
I think that's gonna represent a stronger culture
I mean quite frankly
that's why when I'm fixing food waste
or materials waste or any of the number of
of environmental or social things I'm doing
I could you know
if it were just as easy as let me tell you what to do
I could not charge a lot
I could go in and say here's the things to do
have fun but I know the reality of those things
not changing right away means
you've got to pay me to come in
and do a lot more intensive work
I need to come in and spend a whole day with your team
we have to have follow up accountability
we have to do all these things
because it's not as simple as just
here's a policy or a process to follow
so I I think that the
the culture
and the success of those processes and policies
really go hand in hand yeah
when we talked about it
you were actually just mentioning it now
the kind of startup culture
even in your own company that you prefer
and when we talked about it
you basically
told me that you had missed a lot of upfront time
helping team members understand their strengths
I was I wanted you to talk about that a little bit
why is it so critical like building a team
investing time in the very beginning
to really
understand the strengths of your team members
well I
I tell you it's partially so that I can understand them
but it's actually a lot more about them
understanding themselves
I think people don't spend enough time in reflection
you know sort of reading books about leadership styles
and communication styles and relationships
and the the problems with all of that
and the solutions and the psychology
and taking self evaluations and reflecting on
where can I do better
and how can I articulate my anger
my frustration my disappointment
whatever so part of that is I
I have always pursued learning about myself
in that way and I always get a lot out of any new
type of assessment or book
or whatever
I'm always like
I'm just reading a new one that's kind of had me
I'm at a new level of like
like some new truths coming out that are
that's really exciting
and so I want other people to experience that
but I also
know that not everybody naturally gravitates to it
so like usually I find a an assessment
like one of my go to is the Clifton Strengths Finder
which is actually owned by uh Gallup
and that particular assessment is
I think it's very the
the results of it are in
very informative and very enlightening
like illuminating I should say
and when you learn what other people's strengths are
especially when they're not similar to yours
you start to see like oh
that's why you do what you do okay
so now instead of me being like
annoyed that you do this thing
that's not how I would do it or
or not think about it the way I would think about it
I have a greater appreciation for who you are
as this layered human that's different than I am
and I also see how you would struggle to see and
and reconcile the things I'm doing
so I think it gives you a common
language to be able to explain
here's what's working for me
and here's what's not working for me
and when I during Covid
I had like five interns at one time
and because especially they're all in college
it was really valuable to give them that exposure
because I would say to them like well
you know keep me posted on what
what you like do you like what I'm assigning you
they don't know what they don't know
and they don't necessarily
have the language
to be able to provide feedback like that
to someone who you know
is a boss or a teacher or a mentor
and so I wanted to overtly and explicitly give them
like hey
I want you to do this so that I can learn about you
but I want you to do this
so that you can learn about you
and that you can have the language to say to me
I'm not this is hard for me
and here's why
I think it's not just that I don't know how to like
do the steps cause that's anybody can learn the steps
it's that this isn't clicking with who I am
and what I enjoy and if if it's not what you enjoy
especially cause at the time
you know during Covid
there was it was like unpaid internships
it's like well
I want you to at least be happy
I can't pay you
you want at least be getting a lot of out out of this
right so
so yeah
that's something that I find incredibly valuable and
and everyone on my team and at the interns
and even since then like the subcontractors I work with
they've all gotten a lot of value out of that
and so it's it's something that I think is a
an important choose your own assessment
I use that one but I think
just making sure that you're making space and time
for that conversation
and for people to express in a unique way
like who am I
and how do I fit into this team and this relationship
well you also just said that you're
you're reading some stuff now
some new stuff that you're excited about
that's kind of giving you new insights yes
what are some things that you're reading now
that you're seeing as a good resource
so um
without it going to esoteric and everything
cause this could probably take us down a rabbit hole
I someone pointed me a few months ago to
a couple months ago
to this thing called the map of consciousness
and it's sort of these like
layers of sentiments and world views and
and very you know
it's got a lot of pieces and parts to it and
and there's some pieces of that that I
I'm not qualified to explain
but basically I I looked at it
and the lower pieces were things like anger
and control and grief and anxiety
and all this stuff and I was like
and then the upper stuff is more about like
you know efficiency and compassion
and just all the positive stuff again
I don't I don't have it memorized
but you can imagine
sort of the negative stuff and the positive stuff
and I was like you know
with everything going on in the world right now
I'm really down here in this negative space like
like way more than I usually am
and I realized like
especially as a sustainability professional
like my job is more than anything to not let the world
especially all the people who are anti
environmental and social progress
sure drag me that's what they want
they want to drag me into a space of anxiety and fear
and I was like and I'm letting them win
you know it's funny as I was gonna ask you like
how do you how do you battle like
like in the face of what seems to be overwhelming yeah
just call it opposition I guess
how do you battle letting yourself slip into that space
and I mean
you might have just given me a little indication
you seem like you get a little combative about it
and like I can't well yeah
it's hard it's it's hard not to
and sure you know
and this kind of goes back a little bit to something we
we talked about on our call that we
I'm sure we'll get to in this conversation
and that's the macro versus micro
so one of the things
that I realized in looking at that chart
is that
my job is to stay in the upper part of that chart
because for me to be effective with my audiences
with my clients with my team
I have to stay there
and so I had to take a hard look at what am I what
what am I doing that's dragging me into this
social media mainly
and what am I doing to stay here
and so
at the time that I started kind of engaging with this
I uninstalled some apps from my phones and refocused
some of the way
I get some
some of the information that I need to know about
kind of what's going on and that
when did you do this some maybe like a month ago
I probably like I would say
it's been right about a month
that I deleted one of the apps that I was
spending more time on than I should
that it was really just
everything that was kind of in the feed was really
really
I just did the same putting me in a TikTok
oh yeah
no I don't use TikTok
for me it was Facebook
it was just like I you know
it had gotten to the point where I wasn't even seeing
anything that any of my friends were doing
I was just like constantly
you know being fed up
the stuff that that you know
I just I was
I was living in the echo chamber and being agitated
right and so yep
I made some conscious choices
I also started making conscious choices
about what I watch on TV
and just some other things that really
I really I it so the map of consciousness
the book that one of the books
just this guy wrote a bunch of books
but one of the books the book that that I picked up
was called it's called power versus force
and this concept was like for me
it was this idea
we we use the word power in a negative connotation
but in this connotation
it was very much about the fact that power
is all about compassion
and kindness and listening
and force is force and I had an epiphany that like
as an assertive and strong person
I can really lean into force right
I'm insistent
but there's a fine line between being influential
which I am I'm good at that and being insistent
which I also do and this has been a real
it's been a real like sort of flipped switch for me to
and one of my friends she said to me
I mean I'm being very raw and honest here with you
and your audience one of my friends which is how I am
so I'm okay with that
but one of my friends she said to me she's like
Aurora you
you always think
everything's gonna have to be a battle
like
you're always expecting to have to defend everything
and I was like
she is so right I grew up in an argumentative home
I was in an argumentative marriage
I'm an argumentative person I I yes
I can be I probably can be downright combative
and I'm insistent and it was just this
suddenly this switch flipped of like
it doesn't have to be so hard I overcomplicate it
I overthink it so I've just been in this
like
all of these things have kind of been flooding into me
recently where I'm like
I mean even just in the last few days
I'm collaborating on a proposal with a friend
and I was just like I was so excited about it
I was forcing forcing
forcing and I realize like
I am forcing and I'm creating a really challenging
situation for my friend
who thank God is just the sweetest
most collaborative and beautiful person
and so she's been very wonderful about you know
having a lot of Grace for me and and we're you know
it's gonna be great and we you know
can enjoy working with each other
but it was just like this moment of like
this is an example this is an example of you know
you're take
you're letting your passion get ahead of you
and it's okay
to just stop and let your passion have power
rather than force so it's a real um
hopefully this is hopefully your listeners aren't like
alright I'm out cause this is no very you know
it's very heady stuff but it's very um
it's and it's been um
yeah it's really it's been transforming some of the way
I mean this is always layers right
so I have been doing this kind of work on myself
for years so a lot of this is not super surprising
but I think it's like the layers of the onion right
and every time you kind of peel off an onion
you're like oh okay
you gotta peel off another like I
this was like a big layer of the onion
this was like
I've been peeling off a bunch of little layers
of the onion for years
and this particular one was like
a real kind of breakthrough to the next level well
I love the I love the I the
the differentiation
or the distinction between power and force
and I love that you've rooted power in in like passion
I guess and where where it could also you know
passion could also come out forcefully as well
and I can definitely see a lot
lots of the people I end up talking to specifically
I'd say founders people that started the thing
they care about the thing
it's literally comes from them
so it's hard to you know create that buffer
and that space between your passion for that thing
and what you're trying to achieve
and giving everybody space to participate in that
and at their own space
speed and strengths so that you can get something
for me for example
one thing that was always important to me was
I really wanted to create something that was
greater than I could accomplish on my own
and the only way I can do that is by giving
people the space to do it
or it's just gonna be what I could have done myself
anyway which is likely not as
as impactful as what can be done with yeah
a group of people with diverse skills
so it's always been a challenge for me though
to because most of my time and energy spent
trying to get people across the finish line
and finding the balance between
maybe I'm not articulating things well enough
and getting and communicating
to you in the way that you need to hear it
so that you can absorb what I'm saying
and find your space and what we're doing
and participate and do the thing I expect you to do
ultimately right yeah yeah
which is where you
like that fine line between power and force
like I need you to do the thing that I'm
paying you and asking you to do right yeah
but not
but how do I invite you into that instead of like
pushing you into it oh my goodness
what yeah
how can I do that very fine line yeah
how can I do that thing
without it being at the cost of our relationship and
and what we're trying to do long term
um
anyways I
I really appreciate that perspective
and it's definitely one I'm gonna take from this
because I'm trying to find balance
and I've never thought about the distinction
between power and force it's powerful
isn't it I mean no
but yeah I mean
it's very like this is a very like
you know sort of exposing moment like here you go world
this is the the true you know
the truth of Aurora
but I also feel like letting people know
like where you are like
one of the things that came out of that is
I was actually talking about this with a friend and
and she was kind of like wait
say that again I said
I I realized that humility is not limiting things
it's that's what it can feel like oh
I've got to be humble because I did this
you know I got to shrink because I did this thing
no humility creates space
it doesn't create something to be afraid of
it doesn't make me smaller
cause it it can feel that way oh
I gotta be humble I gotta be smaller no
humility doesn't make me smaller
it creates space for me to be more of who I need to be
and that is like
there's a lot of vulnerability in that
and a lot of like how do I handle when like
you know forced my way
and you know
so it's it's
it's it is humbling like
like do having that epiphany and owning it is
is humbling and yeah
humbling can be very it's tough
especially for entrepreneurs
like we have to be
we have to kind of puff ourselves up
because who else going you know
what he had we have
there has to be this level of what feels like force
because we're going against so much
you know in the world to
to yep
bring forward this thing that we're trying to do
and so it I think it's
it's gonna be interesting to see how this
this epiphany and some of my changes in mentality
slow as some of them may be
how this serves me in the things I'm trying to do
in the marketplace and with my clients yeah
you were one of the things I was just thinking of
as you're saying this I mean
you mentioned that you feel that you can be combative
I feel I I can see myself being the same way
I sometimes I'll tell people
you know I know I'm a lot
I'm very aware that I'm a lot
I say the same thing oh my God yep
I tell my I mean
I my wife
she's she's so gracious
and'cause I know what she has to put up with um
and it's a lot it's funny
I haha
it's a lot haha
oh yes
join the club yeah
and but what I was thinking is like
you know what I try to do
because I can see myself as being combative
one of the things I try to do is like
how can I position whatever it is that I'm trying to
whatever feels like I'm trying to combat
I guess how can I make sure that what that is
is the challenge that if solved
benefits everybody and not focus it on a person
mm hmm um yeah
how can I fully remove it not only from being personal
but focus it in a way that
that resolution benefits everybody
and a lot of times
it's actually typically ends up in focusing it inward
like what can I change about myself
that will make this
entire situation better for everybody
usually that's much easier to do well
it's harder to it's harder to do at first
but it's easier it's harder to get to that right
but yeah once you yeah
once you're willing to do it
you have much more control over how you view the world
and how you act than
than you do over anyone else right yeah
yeah I didn't mean to go off into that Tangent
I know one of the things I wanted to talk to you about
you'd mentioned earlier was focusing on the micro
and to create a meaningful impact
you actually said that your specialty is the micro
not the macro yeah
what do leaders gain from narrowing their focus
like that well
I I
so for me when I talk about macro versus micro
being a sustainability professional
I sometimes get asked like well
what do you think
the current administration's gonna mean for
you know the policies and blah blah blah
and I'm like it's not my specialty
I'm not in advocacy not
I mean I
some of the work I do might
you know kind of touch on that
but I'm not in politics I'm not in advocacy
I'm not really tuned into regulations and legislation
a little bit I am
because some of the work I do is maybe
around reporting and stuff
but I am a lot more
leaning into the change management piece
which means I have to be micro focused on behaviors
at a line level
at a manager level at an executive level
so when I when I talk about micro
I'm talking about you know
or even just thinking about a
a not even thinking about governments or the world
but even thinking about a corporation
like a larger corporation
the macro is sort of like the big picture strategy
and the big picture goals
and all of that is the context that I I
I when I say I don't focus on
I don't mean that like to me
all of that is
the important context that we have to operate in
and knowing that is everything
for designing the right kind of work
like everything
I'm trying to do in sustainability is all about
how can I enhance your existing strategy
I'm not trying to take over
I'm trying to figure out like
how does sustainability align
with what you're already doing
and make it better
and and when I'm talking about micro
I'm really talking about
and then how does that translate
to the level of the person who's doing the work
or who has to change
something about the way their day goes
because now you know
like that impacts them on some sort of emotional level
and that can derail your program
or make your program successful
I want your program to be successful
so how do we focus on that
it's the implementation it's the execution
that right is the micro in my opinion
and that's just where I'm naturally more gifted
and more interested and so I don't really
I insert myself into a lot of the
you know sort of trends
like discussion on what are some trends coming
I get asked that a lot you know
what are the trends in sustainability right
you know I can
I can answer that a little bit
as it relates to hospitality and events
because that's a a vertical I'm very deep in
but that's not really
I'm not really like a let me tell you the trans person
I'm more like let me tell you why
let me tell you why
what we've been talking about for five years
still isn't working that's what I wanna talk about
right I wanna talk about more about the fact that like
hey five years ago when somebody said this is the trend
we still aren't doing that good
so are doing that well yeah
should we can we yeah
can we talk about why that is
let's stop getting so focused on like
what the next trend is how about implementing any trend
that's that's a good thing
like any good trend how
about implementing that at the micro level
so that it is now a
a given part of the culture and the industry norm yeah
and I was actually the way you've described it
I was wondering if you could maybe kind of talk about
how do small like
consistent leadership behaviors create
like an outsized impact over time
if we're talking about the micro like yep
what would be a way you could
you could emphasize that as a yeah
so
a great example for me is the work I do in food waste
so there's a lot of systems out there
for managing food waste that are
that some have very sophisticated technology
and a lot of times this idea of like
we gotta reduce food waste
like any of these especially in sustainability
but any of these kind of macro ideas
they usually come in as macro thoughts
like reduce food waste
like I get we're throwing stuff away
we shouldn't throw away but like translating that OK
so we're gonna start to translate and so like OK
you need to start measuring
measure everything because it's
there's not enough sort of micro level definition of
like what do you need to do
and so
it's passed on to someone who kind of has a vague
idea of like
I yeah okay
I don't want to waste food
we we should work on this
but how has it been translated
into the job description of everyone who touches
food and in a food service organization
that's everyone whether you're the person who buys it
who stores it who
who transports it whether you prepare it
serve it clean it whatever
and so
what I did when I started going in and doing this work
is I started saying like okay
this is overwhelming because you could you know
you
you have a menu of 100 items like where do you start
you get a you have like how many different skews of of
you know SKUs of product come in the door
I mean who knows right
so I started by just saying like hey
when I do a training I'm like
get get up get into groups
and write a list on a flip chart of the top most
10 things you see thrown away here
that's where you start
I don't even know forget 10 the two
let's look at all your list okay
looks like rice and hot dogs okay
that seems random
that's what it seems like everybody around here says
you throw away the most can we fix rice and hot dogs
because if you can fix that
what you have fixed is the mindset
that's causing you to overproduce rice
over order hot dogs
misunderstand what people want to eat
and how they want to eat it
misunderstand the storage of these things
better improve the way you cook them
so that the rice is actually delicious or whatever
right it's not about even specifically
how do we reduce waste in rice and hot dogs
it's what are the processes that have LED
to waste in rice and hot dogs
cause that's probably
the same stuff that's leading to the waste
in the other things
the other eight things on your top 10 list
right
I'm less concerned about the results in hot dog waste
prevention but I am I do
I do measure that
because those numbers speak to the executives
those numbers speak to the owners
and what I can say the percent your
your food cost of the food waste went from 41% to 25%
that's a number that tells a story
and gets the ears of the decision makers
who then allow me to have conversations with line
cooks and servers right
and so helping everyone up and down the chain
understand what their their role is
is is what matters
and so for the leader going back to your question
the the leader has to then reinforce
these small changes that allow people to observe notice
observe reflect share
discuss because nothing's gonna change
if those things aren't happening
so rather than overwhelming the system
we're just gonna talk about rice for a few weeks right
and it seems crazy but like I mean
if you can't even start with a conversation about rice
you're never gonna fix all the other stuff right
so just starting with right you know
kind of like so that's why you
always put this thing over here
and write this thing on that piece of paper okay
well gosh
that's probably why we're wasting so much rice oh
that would also explain why we're wasting bread
and other things right
so if the managers
and the leaders are engaging in that conversation
and allow
themselves to focus on just something as tiny as rice
no pun intended right
tiny as rice then it starts to change the
the mentality the culture
the communication
that's going to lead to real transformation in culture
and in process that ultimately lowers cost
and does the other things you want it to do
in terms of just any kind of numeric result right
and and one of the things
as we start to kind of
get towards the end of this episode
you've kind of basically given me a picture of how you
help leaders go through change management by like
by exploring the context of what would be important to
focus on and maybe address
to create improved results inside their organization
for themselves for their team
if you were to be able to reflect that on yourself
and you were to be able to go back in time
and give your you had 60 seconds
you can give yourself one piece of advice
choose it choose the stage in your life
maybe it's your early 20s
what would that piece of advice be
oh yeah if I could go back to a 34 year old me and
and listen to this podcast about leadership
I think my career would have had a different trajectory
I was really all about force at 34 years old for sure
I was definitely operating in a force mindset
and a lot of that has to do with
being a woman of my age coming up in an environment
where women had to act a lot more forceful
to be taken seriously
and so I probably would want to go back and say
here's some books to read and you're
you're not going to be less
because you change in these ways
it it
it feels like you're going to
it's like
it's gonna make you smaller or less likely to grow
but it's actually the contrary
you're gonna grow more do more
achieve more
and have more impact if you learn this now instead of
you know 10 years later
and speaking of books
would one of those books be your own book
that you would recommend to yourself
to the young version of you
yes actually
you know um
actually yes
because you know
when I when I you know
if I look back at myself
I said 34 that's that's a little over 20 years ago um
and at the time I was starting to really
get interested in social impact more
more social than environmental at the time
I do a lot of both now
but at the time I was very interested in social impact
but I didn't know what to do with that interest
I didn't know what that had to do with my job
I didn't know I didn't know what to do with that
and and there's a lot more answers
and pathways for people now
than there were 20 years ago
but that's what this book is about this book is um
that's one of the things it's about
it's about helping people who are um
trying to figure out
how would I make impact a part of my career
and it doesn't mean getting another job
or getting a degree necessarily
and that's a lot of what I talk about
like how do you
how do you do that right where you are right now
and for our listeners what is that book
yeah Exponential Impact
it's about
harnessing human potential to drive sustainability
in organizations and it's really
about all the things I've been talking about
it's for leadership areas of leadership
which is in sort of go in order empathize
enlighten empower and encourage
and so kind of stepping through those
there's actually chapters
within each of those sections
there's a lot of chapters
and each chapter has discussion questions
because I'm all about like
how do you apply this in a real world scenario
this isn't all just a bunch of theory
this is very much like
here's how you would sit down with maybe one colleague
to say what can we do differently
and here's some
some discussion and application activities to consider
awesome well
thank you for all the time you've given us
for all the insights
including the insights into yourself
and the book that you've written
that you've just shared with us
I really appreciate your time
and I've enjoyed this episode
I'm looking forward to chatting with you more
thank you so much David
I enjoyed this as well thanks
hey
thanks for listening to this episode of Lead Smarter
and thank you to the partners and sponsors
who believe in our mission
to evolve ourselves to elevate others
speaking of elevating others
if you liked this episode
please be sure to like follow
subscribe and share it would mean a lot to me
and the team that works so hard behind the scenes
so we can all learn together
and of course thank you to the expert guests
who kindly join us as generous guides
on our journey to lead smarter