[allen_white]: oh
[allen_white]: m oh
[allen_white]: oh
[allen_white]: m
[allen_white]: oh
[allen_white]: m m
[allen_white]: m
[allen_white]: oh
[allen_white]: oh
[allen_white]: yah
[allen_white]: yeah
[allen_white]: oh
[allen_white]: yes
[allen_white]: oh oh
[allen_white]: oh oh oh
[allen_white]: oh
[allen_white]: okay
[allen_white]: a
[allen_white]: yeah
[allen_white]: yeah
[allen_white]: yeah
[allen_white]: oh
[craig]: us
[allen_white]: hey oh oh
[allen_white]: can
[craig]: be
[allen_white]: you hear me
[craig]: yes we can hear you
[allen_white]: can i hear you i can hear
you in a place i don't want to
[allen_white]: hear you at uh
[craig]: oh hey
[allen_white]: uh so and in addition to this
being the first
[craig]: oh
[allen_white]: instance where i recorded a pastor and
a discipleship pastor on the same thing this
[allen_white]: is also the first time i've used
this riverside studio
[craig]: i wondered
[allen_white]: so
[craig]: what this was so like this
[allen_white]: this could be fun it's supposed to
give us it'll break up are
[craig]: at
[allen_white]: our audio into separate channels
[craig]: oh
[allen_white]: and which is good um but then
it'll
[craig]: m
[allen_white]: give me a problem right now
[craig]: yeah
[allen_white]: okay i'm gonna
[craig]: oh
[allen_white]: yeah
[craig]: oh
[allen_white]: i'm gonna disappear for a second and
then i'll come right back it should keep
[allen_white]: you in the room
[craig]: okay
[allen_white]: so fingers crossed
[craig]: all right here we go
[allen_white]: you like being guinea pigs right
[craig]: i love trasinplaysin
[allen_white]: love
[craig]: a trakluely
[craig]: you died i saw the new seek
today one jumped in to save somebody so
[craig]: it was they were over she got
to the shore he died i was wondering
[craig]: that's what they were doing then they're
just canvas trying to find she was flailing
[craig]: she's like i'll go sooner never came
up there along their way right there the
[craig]: dock right by the r was packed
in air court way had tons of cars
[craig]: and there there wasn't very much beach
at all
[craig]: oh i told you almost want to
day and do that a couple of years
[craig]: ago yeah
[craig]: sons floating away from the back about
jumps in with like jack and goes to
[craig]: like right so now we have two
of you with that's why you should anyway
[craig]: yes so now we have two people
to rest basic first eight is last resort
[craig]: our last resort is june
[craig]: oh yeah
[craig]: yeah it makes sense the last words
came out was yelled into a lower cause
[craig]: i on anchored you that's right tell
story he stayed anchored up and jumped out
[craig]: of the back and like dude threw
right i told kid put your stuff away
[craig]: here we go can we pick them
up tonight i do remember self stupid stupid
[craig]: simon could have watched you die right
in front of that is tom i don't
[craig]: know how many times i've read it's
an are somebody's panicked and flailing somebody jumps
[craig]: in and the victim it's out in
an alternate way and the person that jumped
[craig]: in to save died
[craig]: don't chip in the water
[craig]: m
[craig]: oh yeah
[craig]: shoot forgot turn like trying to text
me
[craig]: yeah yeah yeah
[craig]: oh
[craig]: m
[craig]: oh
[craig]: he restarted computer back on it in
a second so i wonder if we should
[craig]: i think what i want to do
shut down
[craig]: all to sleep eh
[craig]: yea my son gets on my land
top dead could we have so many times
[craig]: over bad because i'm working
[craig]: i go to my email once an
hour
[allen_white]: oh stuff is happening
[craig]: hey there we are
[allen_white]: good stuff is happening
[craig]: oh
[allen_white]: all right
[craig]: a we
[allen_white]: all right so
[craig]: m
[allen_white]: you guys i can see like your
your shoulders
[craig]: well
[allen_white]: oh
[craig]: the
[allen_white]: i can see a little more of
you that way now the good news is
[allen_white]: we're not going to use the video
[craig]: that's what i thought
[allen_white]: we're just trying to not interrupt each
other
[craig]: right
[allen_white]: which i will warn you occasionally you
know i will talk over somebody
[craig]: m
[allen_white]: and if you're you know saying something
poignant and then all of a sudden i
[allen_white]: start blabbing we may stop and i'll
just say hey go back and say that
[allen_white]: again and this time i'll shut up
[craig]: we
[allen_white]: so okay that works so the way
this will go is before the interview starts
[allen_white]: on the podcast all do
[craig]: m
[allen_white]: you know my generic podcast
[craig]: yeah
[allen_white]: intro i don't have any music or
anything it's just you know it is what
[allen_white]: it is and then i'll make an
introduction of the two of you um and
[allen_white]: then so when when this part starts
it's just going to start with hey tom
[allen_white]: craig welcome to the podcast and so
we have worry about all this time before
[allen_white]: i will need you guys just to
send me
[craig]: yeah
[allen_white]: a short bio and a picture
[craig]: yeah ah
[allen_white]: and we'll figure out how to get
both of you on the thing
[craig]: m
[allen_white]: but you know if we have to
cut somebody i'm sorry crag you
[craig]: hand
[allen_white]: have to go
[craig]: out always i put his name
[allen_white]: so
[craig]: as the guest
[allen_white]: yeah so that's all right yeah so
if you guys can send that to me
[allen_white]: then i'll get it all set up
and then tom i should know this i
[allen_white]: should have it marise i should have
a tattoo
[craig]: oh
[allen_white]: but what is the correct pronunciation of
your last name
[craig]: it could be anything you wanted to
be no it's the actual call i'm tom
[craig]: santalinis
[allen_white]: santalinas
[craig]: samtelinis
[allen_white]: there you go
[craig]: that will work it works
[allen_white]: because i was going to turn the
double l into a why
[craig]: technically
[allen_white]: and
[craig]: that's what it is in santianas
[allen_white]: there you go
[craig]: but people that ends up being worse
than the others
[allen_white]: santalinas
[craig]: oh
[allen_white]: there we go well it's like there's
a mexican restaurant that you're in town that's
[allen_white]: commonly pronounced l gallo because if you
didn't it would be pronounced l geo
[craig]: oh right yeah
[allen_white]: eh
[craig]: oh
[allen_white]: eh and you know that leads to
whole other issues so all
[craig]: it's
[allen_white]: right
[craig]: much
[allen_white]: do you guys
[craig]: corn
[allen_white]: have any questions
[craig]: is that it is in oregon
[allen_white]: well kansas has its own thing because
we are the home town of not only
[allen_white]: allen white but also of the west
borough baptist church
[craig]: yes you are yes you are
[allen_white]: so in fact there's a christian church
pastor from lincoln christian church in lincoln illinois
[allen_white]: stopped by a guy named brandon boyd
they were headed out to colorado she was
[allen_white]: in town yesterday called me and we
walked into starbuck which was very very decorated
[allen_white]: for pride but and i said our
starbuck i whispered our starbuck is usually not
[allen_white]: this gay but this is the home
town of the west boro baptist church which
[allen_white]: caleb colden box talks about in his
book
[craig]: yes
[allen_white]: um anyway we're not proud of that
in fact i used to be before they
[allen_white]: started work in some road work here
i would drive by their compound for the
[allen_white]: west bro baptist church when i was
leaving my office and i would pray for
[allen_white]: him and and days that i had
my sun roof open i would pray for
[allen_white]: them loudly
[craig]: ah they have visited here
[allen_white]: oh have they really wow how did
[craig]: a
[allen_white]: they
[craig]: little
[allen_white]: find
[craig]: contingency
[allen_white]: their way all the way out
[craig]: of
[allen_white]: there
[craig]: them ah
[allen_white]: wow
[craig]: yeah
[allen_white]: that's amazing
[craig]: we were not on their positive list
but they have sated
[allen_white]: oh
[craig]: here
[allen_white]: yeah they protest in the park across
the street from our church and our church
[allen_white]: is like all of fifty people but
it's on the main you know street in
[allen_white]: topeka and
[craig]: okay
[allen_white]: i just i don't know i just
shake my head
[craig]: yeah yeah
[allen_white]: so what do you do t's it's
quite a legacy we got going into pica
[allen_white]: here all right any questions about what
do in
[craig]: i'm good
[allen_white]: all right any anything any questions i
sent over that you don't want to talk
[allen_white]: about
[craig]: now we've talked about most of those
questions often in various
[allen_white]: m
[craig]: settings
[craig]: oh
[allen_white]: all right the spirit of this is
that you know as much as people have
[allen_white]: you know they'll say oh my church
is you know such and such an age
[allen_white]: we would never be able to do
that or oh my church was in the
[allen_white]: lock downs for so long you've got
a lot of those guys topped
[craig]: yeah
[allen_white]: then for you to come around and
say this worked so
[craig]: it's true it's true
[allen_white]: i'm not looking for endorsement i'm just
looking to tell your story because i think
[allen_white]: this will give a lot of places
um hope because a lot of you know
[allen_white]: a lot of people just pastors don't
know what to do right now and so
[allen_white]: we want to kind of say hey
here's some things you know that barely post
[allen_white]: pandemic for you guys here are some
things that worked and this was the result
[allen_white]: and this is how worked connecting people
that are outside of our church this is
[allen_white]: how we have more leaders than we've
ever had
[craig]: m
[allen_white]: um and we'll talk about the team
we'll talk about the whole bit so
[craig]: great
[allen_white]: ah and so i don't know with
you guys have you kind of decided who's
[allen_white]: going to answer what questions or have
you thought about that
[craig]: no we've not talked about it i've
decided but that's because tom is really nervous
[craig]: and he normally
[allen_white]: m
[craig]: is pretty talkative but i can already
tell he's pretty quiet
[allen_white]: oh
[craig]: so i figured the first couple of
questions for sure probably more in my realm
[craig]: and then where it gets down into
the specifics of the
[allen_white]: yes
[craig]: groups
[allen_white]: oh
[craig]: really that's crags and he really intimately
knows our process
[allen_white]: okay
[craig]: and
[allen_white]: and if there's
[craig]: part of what you're looking for is
you know this doesn't work without the lead
[craig]: pastor's
[allen_white]: oh
[craig]: support
[allen_white]: that's true
[craig]: and so
[allen_white]: it
[craig]: i'm
[allen_white]: doesn't
[craig]: happy to chime in and even even
say you know craig was was our guy
[craig]: to lead this initiative but he couldn't
have done it you know without without my
[craig]: support without me jumping in without me
having some moments where craig crag had to
[craig]: lead me and say you've got to
do this you got to do this you
[craig]: got to do this and we have
that reality that relationship and worked
[allen_white]: that's good that's good and obviously you
guys had a big success as a result
[allen_white]: of you know all of this
[craig]: i
[allen_white]: so good all right well let's get
started i mean and and just time for
[allen_white]: the sake of pers active my podcast
has literally dozens and dozens of listeners
[craig]: yeah hey i get it
[allen_white]: right so
[craig]: we
[allen_white]: it's not like you know five thousand
people
[craig]: i don't know
[allen_white]: or something
[craig]: it could change
[allen_white]: but
[craig]: because of us
[allen_white]: well
[craig]: yeah
[allen_white]: that's that's what i'm counting
[craig]: yeah
[allen_white]: on so if you're feeling nervous at
all
[craig]: on
[allen_white]: this
[craig]: go
[allen_white]: is he this is the pressure
[craig]: yeah
[allen_white]: all right all right let's get start
and so i'll just welcome you and then
[allen_white]: say something back and then we'll we'll
get going but just you know just i
[allen_white]: interviewed larry osborn for last month's podcast
and i was kind of just interviewing him
[allen_white]: for a book that i'm writing and
i said so part of this is an
[allen_white]: interview for the book and part of
it's the interview for the podcast and we
[allen_white]: just talked and then i had to
go back the conversation and i had to
[allen_white]: figure out okay wait what should i
put in the podcast what do i not
[allen_white]: put in the podcast because it wasn't
very it was just kind of free flowing
[allen_white]: i was fine
[craig]: ye
[allen_white]: um and then then people got mad
at me because i said the church should
[allen_white]: be should be political switsorlind so if
you want to get mad at me for
[allen_white]: that go ahead everybody else has already
done that this
[craig]: oh
[allen_white]: week right anyway all right let's go
all right tom and crag welcome to the
[allen_white]: podcast
[craig]: good to be with you hey allan
glad to be with you
[allen_white]: good to have you hey you guys
are at mountain view christian church in gresham
[allen_white]: oregon
[craig]: m
[allen_white]: for those of you who aren't aware
gresham is not portland did i get that
[allen_white]: right
[craig]: it is correct
[allen_white]: so tell us about mountain view christian
church how long has it been around and
[allen_white]: kind of how long have you been
there and tell me what's going on
[craig]: well i'll start out there mount christian
church was planted in nineteen sixty nine as
[craig]: a church plant from another church east
portland there was a lot of growth potential
[craig]: and gresham and so they intentionally planted
us out here and in the fall of
[craig]: nineteen six lance or over fifty years
old we were a prominent been suburbian community
[craig]: for years and years and years until
until that moved further south east from us
[craig]: and really we are demographics have just
drastically changed and so a church
[allen_white]: yeah
[craig]: that was vibrant with young families and
pretty much upper middle class people has drastically
[craig]: changed and we've become more urban in
nature with the local elementary school represents over
[craig]: thirty languages we have multiple amilies dwelling
in one home together in our community and
[craig]: really mountain view went for being a
community based church to be in a commuter
[craig]: church and so that's really that's really
who we are that's how long we've been
[craig]: around for me i've been on staff
since two thousand three came out as an
[craig]: associate youth pastor worked as a as
a youth and children's pastor and then became
[craig]: the lead pastor in two thousand thirteen
so almost nine years i've been serving as
[craig]: the lead pastor here
[allen_white]: you you've seen quite a bit of
change now i know crag's been on staff
[allen_white]: since nineteen sixty nine
[craig]: yeah
[allen_white]: oh
[craig]: seems like that some days so i
came
[allen_white]: oh
[craig]: in june of ninety nine so i've
just eclipsed twenty three years
[allen_white]: very good and what changes have you
seen over those twenty three years crag other
[allen_white]: than senior pastors
[craig]: yeah i've raised
[allen_white]: yeah
[craig]: up a lot of senor pastors and
that amount of time
[allen_white]: careful he's sitting right next to you
[craig]: yes he has
[craig]: gresham
[allen_white]: m
[craig]: exploded in about twenty years and literally
went from strawberry fields to the bedroom community
[craig]: of portland and i came in really
on the back end of that so in
[craig]: the early two thousand gresham was a
commune you're struggling with an identity
[allen_white]: m
[craig]: because we were really they grew up
as homes and so there still isn't a
[craig]: central business community
[allen_white]: m
[craig]: really an identity in our commune ah
for people to gather around and so that
[craig]: has been a struggle in our city
and we've had some of that struggle here
[craig]: in the church as well and i've
rolled through several positions here and landed at
[craig]: the time tom came on this lead
pastor and moving towards this small groups discipleship
[craig]: kind of role her mount
[allen_white]: yeah that's good that's that's very good
now let's talk about you guys are in
[allen_white]: oregon and obviously the pacific northwest as
well as a few other places in the
[allen_white]: united
[craig]: oh
[allen_white]: states um you had a lot of
covid trictions that lasted for a very long
[allen_white]: time i remember the first time i
came out to see you guys i went
[allen_white]: got a sandwich in an outdoor restaurant
everybody was outdoors there was no front to
[allen_white]: the restaurant i had forgot i put
my mask in my pocket and somebody yelled
[allen_white]: at me sir would you put on
your mask please and i'm thinking we're outside
[allen_white]: but it was a restaurant and there
was a mask mandate and so you guys
[allen_white]: saw that a great deal more of
it a lot of places um so what
[allen_white]: impact did all of these restrictions have
on you guys nd how are you able
[allen_white]: to do you know ministry through all
of that
[craig]: it was challenging um we as far
as portland metro area churches we are certainly
[craig]: a year to and even sixteen months
behind a lot
[allen_white]: m
[craig]: of the country so we shut down
in twenty twenty pretty hard april twenty twenty
[craig]: and no church we already
[allen_white]: yeah
[craig]: had life stream available so we leverage
to our full capacity we didn't have to
[craig]: pivot too much with that because we
were already providing it
[allen_white]: oh
[craig]: but we certainly had a government structure
that couldn't make make decisive decisions very quickly
[craig]: and if if they were decisions
[allen_white]: oh
[craig]: we began
[allen_white]: yeah
[craig]: planning you would expect that it's going
to change and so really we remained closed
[craig]: for when i say closed i hope
we all understand that the church isn't closed
[craig]: but you know we weren't having our
gatherings for well over a year um and
[craig]: then and then even when we were
able to gather there were a lot of
[craig]: restrictions six feet per person spread out
masks handsanitizing stations on so everything we had
[craig]: to pivot everything else in our gatherings
as far as passing communion plates and offering
[craig]: bags
[allen_white]: m
[craig]: and all of that we just had
[allen_white]: yeah
[craig]: to pivot our gatherings pret pretty substantially
and it really wasn't until this past march
[craig]: so we're talking just a few months
ago that the masks restrictions were actually lifted
[craig]: and people began returning to lie as
as we knew it in some former fashion
[craig]: and
[allen_white]: yeah
[craig]: so we we managed through almost two
years it was almost two long years of
[craig]: constant changing guide lines restrictions the amount
of people who could come what it did
[craig]: to our people is that it created
a fear factor in a lot of ways
[allen_white]: oh
[craig]: people were fearful
[allen_white]: h
[craig]: of the gathering
[allen_white]: m
[craig]: certainly
[allen_white]: you too
[craig]: things that we saw on
[allen_white]: i
[craig]: the
[allen_white]: mean
[craig]: news
[allen_white]: lad
[craig]: media about churches and all that stuff
just heightens some
[allen_white]: a
[craig]: of that sensitivity to it
[allen_white]: i think you
[craig]: and so you know we managed as
best we could what i would say
[allen_white]: yeah
[craig]: is the best thing for us i'm
incredibly thankful we were already really working hard
[craig]: on our groups ministry getting people into
grow groups that's what we call them grow
[craig]: groups getting
[allen_white]: yeah
[craig]: them into small groups because our grow
groups didn't miss a beat they started zoom
[craig]: they met outside in big circles they
were doing all sorts of things and if
[craig]: it wasn't for our groups i'm not
sure that our church would have been able
[craig]: to serve but the level it has
[allen_white]: yeah that's it's amazing it's really amazing
how what you guys had to go through
[allen_white]: and yet you know because of groups
because of your online service you guys were
[allen_white]: what prepared in a lot of ways
i mean as well prepared as you could
[allen_white]: be and it wasn't like anybody knew
in advance so good all right
[craig]: two weeks
[allen_white]: just a second my my thing is
telling me my browser is limiting the storage
[allen_white]: available anyway we're going to keep going
and if we have a problem then we'll
[allen_white]: figure
[craig]: m
[allen_white]: it out again this the new thing
using the using this okay so i'll edit
[allen_white]: that part
[craig]: m
[allen_white]: out
[craig]: m
[allen_white]: all right so crag you reached out
to me a little more than a year
[allen_white]: ago and you were interested in putting
some concerted effort into your
[craig]: m
[allen_white]: groups what was going on at the
time and what were you guys hoping to
[allen_white]: change
[craig]: yeah so we have for five years
really desired to move towards being a church
[craig]: of groups not just a church with
groups and like tom said we had been
[craig]: down a track for a season and
we were a bible study based small group
[craig]: church
[allen_white]: oh
[craig]: and so groups got people got together
for the purpose of bible study not necessarily
[craig]: for the purpose of a lot of
the other healthy things that happen
[allen_white]: oh
[craig]: when you make the change to becoming
a group which is white changed the name
[craig]: to grow group and that was an
intentional part of that movement but an nose
[craig]: to me we hit the wall that
i found out as i did more and
[craig]: more research and we talked that we
hit him and unless we've made some drastic
[craig]: changes we were not going to get
to our goal uh in the middle of
[craig]: that
[allen_white]: yeah
[craig]: covid arrived and we went to zoom
we went outside we measured every room in
[craig]: our building to see what the square
footage was to see where our groups could
[craig]: meet according to the mandate the state
had put out and so
[allen_white]: m
[craig]: literally i had people now measuring a
square footage and telling us we know how
[craig]: many people could go in this room
and so we did everything that we could
[craig]: in order to help groups succeed that
were currently there and then it was our
[craig]: two weeks turned into two months turned
into a whole lot other things and i
[craig]: realized we are not going to in
any short time frame recruit any new leaders
[craig]: and grow many new groups the way
that we are currently doing it uh
[allen_white]: m
[craig]: and so i kind of went back
to school on my own and i read
[craig]: double digit numbers of books on small
groups that summer and
[allen_white]: m
[craig]: really landed on what you had written
and exponential groups and thought you know what
[craig]: i'm gonna make a call and
[allen_white]: m
[craig]: talk to allen about experience and here
we are
[allen_white]: here we are now you mentioned at
one point hitting a wall what do you
[allen_white]: mean by hitting a
[craig]: yeah
[allen_white]: wall with your groups
[craig]: yeah we got to a certain number
of groups and our process for developing leaders
[craig]: and recruiting people to fill groups feels
like it just masked out and we
[allen_white]: so
[craig]: weren't getting anywhere
[allen_white]: okay
[craig]: you know i would have been as
old as moses if we d have kept
[craig]: the same process to get any more
more groups going
[allen_white]: about how many groups did you have
at that point
[craig]: so we were we had about twenty
five solid groups at that point
[allen_white]: and what was the weekend attendance giver
take
[craig]: so prepandemic five hundred
[allen_white]: okay so i mean it's a very
common place we've talked about this is a
[allen_white]: very common place for church to kind
of get stuck or hit a wall so
[allen_white]: you you read my book and no
got thoroughly confused and then you called me
[allen_white]: and i'm kidding but you decided to
try some things because i mean i wrote
[allen_white]: the book out of you know finding
some things after my own frustration and hitting
[craig]: m
[allen_white]: a wall so i think that's what
you know connected with us so you decided
[allen_white]: to do an alignment series that you
launched in the new year this year tell
[allen_white]: us a little bit about the alignment
sere is why you chose the topic you
[allen_white]: did either of you could speak to
that
[craig]: yeah i kind of led the charge
in that and picked monsters in the closet
[craig]: because i wanted to do something that
would engage our community and so all that
[craig]: time talked us a little bit about
beginning to understand what
[allen_white]: oh
[craig]: was going on spiritually in our commun
and about the same time that i was
[craig]: going through this we got to do
something different with small group outreach
[allen_white]: yeah
[craig]: i think one of the things that
it's important to mention is we had twenty
[craig]: five groups and we have a lot
of great people in those groups and a
[craig]: lot of great potential
[allen_white]: hm
[craig]: leaders but when we use the phrase
multiply it was like a danger word it
[craig]: was like immediately we were ghosted right
because the reality is they're doing life together
[craig]: some of these groups have been together
a few of them a handful of them
[craig]: have been together for thirty years and
when we start talking about multiply they hear
[craig]: split and they hear and they couldn't
a lot of our great people couldn't get
[craig]: beyond that as as just it was
a hurdle yeah that's really good it was
[craig]: a hurdle for him and so that
was part of where craig sat down and
[craig]: he and i had talked what does
the future of groups look like and he
[craig]: really created a four step process and
we had to come to the reality of
[craig]: where we were at and we were
kind of in between that second
[allen_white]: oh
[craig]: and third process we have a dream
down the future
[allen_white]: m
[craig]: but we had to figure out
[allen_white]: hm
[craig]: specifically how do we how do we
recruit how do we help people empower people
[craig]: how do we break out of some
of the rigidness that we've had as far
[craig]: as expectations to just get people to
facilitate a group and and i think allen
[craig]: that's where exponential groups and you and
some of the training that really helped us
[craig]: significantly part of what you commented i
remember our first visit no hey leave the
[craig]: groups that are established leave them alone
[allen_white]: that's right
[craig]: and that was refreshing for us because
we were feeling it and we were feeling
[craig]: this rub at the same time and
so some of the tools you provided some
[craig]: of the things that you did really
gave us the freedom to great we'll leave
[craig]: those groups and not to get too
far ahead but we said to those groups
[craig]: you can do what you want to
do keep keep going down the journey you're
[craig]: going and suddenly not to create the
spoiler alert but then those groups are coming
[craig]: to us hey we wanted to do
that and so you know that was really
[craig]: what was part of driving us towards
we need some help here we just need
[craig]: some guidance
[allen_white]: yeah
[craig]: we need some direction and so that
was one go ahead
[allen_white]: i was just going to say what
would your fear have been if i had
[allen_white]: come in and said oh yeah you
need to scrap all of those groups that
[allen_white]: you have and they all need to
do this new thing how would that have
[craig]: we wouldn't
[allen_white]: felt
[craig]: have signed your contract that as been
[allen_white]: so what
[craig]: no dog yeah
[allen_white]: so what would the monster in the
fat closet have been
[craig]: uh fear of the unknown like i
said at the
[allen_white]: yeah
[craig]: beginning our community has changed so much
um m we don't know how to reach
[craig]: people in our community and so the
idea of reaching more people a lot of
[craig]: those people just couldn't see it
[allen_white]: m
[craig]: they just couldn't see it and so
the fear was you're taking us somewhere we've
[craig]: never been taking us somewhere that we're
actually skeptics
[allen_white]: yeah
[craig]: you will actually be able to do
anyway taking
[allen_white]: hm
[craig]: as some place that really is creating
some comfort issues for me and we needed
[craig]: to listen to that so we did
and you know you helped with a survey
[craig]: you helped give
[allen_white]: yeah
[craig]: us some insight and part of what
you said is leave those
[allen_white]: what
[craig]: groups alone there are people in your
church who can help you yet goals achieved
[craig]: without messing with any of those and
that was a huge breather for us so
[craig]: yeah and on the other side
[allen_white]: yeah
[craig]: of that our community was very clearly
saying we are interested and spiritual conversations so
[craig]: tom had a conversation with a local
church guy we have a connection with a
[craig]: with expand northwest it's a church planting
organization here in portland and he just gave
[craig]: us to die graphic and he just
said listen
[allen_white]: oh
[craig]: in gresham a city of a hundred
and ten thousand there's seventy seven thousand
[allen_white]: oh
[craig]: people who have said we're unaffiliated with
any
[allen_white]: m
[craig]: any religion any any faith at all
and we said
[allen_white]: wow
[craig]: man well you talk about the harvest
being plentiful the workers being few that that
[craig]: struck accord for us and and nine
out of ten of them won't come to
[craig]: our church with an invitation you just
won't attend
[allen_white]: m
[craig]: but seven out of ten will engage
in a spiritual conversation so this is what
[craig]: sort of drove us to monsters in
the closet is that was kind of our
[craig]: r filter this this has to allow
for us to have spiritual conversations with people
[craig]: who will never be interested in an
invitation to attend our church so we
[allen_white]: h
[craig]: focused
[allen_white]: m
[craig]: on some mental health things with monsters
in the closet
[allen_white]: oh
[craig]: anxiety and fear and an the groups
that participated in that who reached people invited
[craig]: people into their homes who weren't part
of a church who weren't engaged in church
[craig]: at all whoa they were open to
the spiritual conversation s yeah
[allen_white]: so so the attractional piece of you
know everybody come like they did back in
[allen_white]: the nineties that wasn't working
[craig]: no help
[allen_white]: but the idea of come to my
house and let's talk about something that's concerning
[allen_white]: to you concerning to me and let's
see what the bible has to say that
[allen_white]: that worked now you guys actually created
your own small group corriculum uh for this
[allen_white]: assignment tell us about that
[craig]: we did so we put together a
team after our pastoral staff had determined the
[craig]: topics and so we put together
[allen_white]: oh
[craig]: a team of volunteers for
[allen_white]: oh
[craig]: a church and said here it is
go to town gave them some examples of
[craig]: what we might want it to look
like and really turn it over to some
[allen_white]: oh
[craig]: folks unbeknown to us at the time
[allen_white]: yeah
[craig]: o had connections there of their own
to people who write coriculum and range and
[craig]: produce criculum and so you
[allen_white]: m
[craig]: know we we bathed this thing in
prayer early on and god just continued to
[craig]: open door after door after door larsually
unnoticed to us till after the fact and
[craig]: so you know we learned you know
you learn all these lessons along the way
[craig]: that you don't know that you're going
to learn as you go but you're willing
[allen_white]: hm
[craig]: to take a look and see
[allen_white]: oh
[craig]: and so we a team of volunteers
put together one of the best steady guides
[craig]: i have had the opportunity to lead
a group through
[allen_white]: yeah
[craig]: as a
[allen_white]: m
[craig]: small group pastor they did a rock
star job and it was beautiful
[allen_white]: m
[craig]: it was beautiful to use it was
beautiful to watch to
[allen_white]: oh
[craig]: them come to a complete project and
draw a line under and be able to
[craig]: say who did it to hear really
positive feedback from our church um and and
[craig]: to see even
[allen_white]: m
[craig]: our current groups jump in and say
well and you know tom alluded to that
[craig]: earlier we we we spent
[allen_white]: m
[craig]: it was it was
[allen_white]: oh
[craig]: six months process from the time i
handed them
[allen_white]: m
[craig]: until we produced the end so it
was six months
[allen_white]: m
[craig]: of writing and rewriting and you had
given me a book a small little book
[craig]: on how to ask good questions i
gave copies of all
[allen_white]: hm
[craig]: that little book to all those folks
they read it i can tell they read
[craig]: it because of the questions that they
put into the criculum and then we got
[craig]: to the end result some of our
small groups long standing small groups started read
[craig]: through it and said hey
[allen_white]: okay
[craig]: we want to do this how can
we weren't invited to do this so we
[craig]: went back through the sneak peak talk
with him again and said you're always welcome
[craig]: to do this our target is and
work through the whole thing and yet god
[craig]: too had a work to do and
our current groups to help them with some
[craig]: of the same things that we knew
our community wanted to engage in scrirtualing
[allen_white]: that's very cool i remember back in
the day when i first did this and
[allen_white]: our established groups we were going so
fast we didn't even invite our established groups
[allen_white]: to be a part of it and
so some of us trust came to me
[allen_white]: and they said hey can we do
this or is this only for new groups
[allen_white]: and i said you know well what's
it worth to you and i'm such a
[allen_white]: compassionate
[craig]: uh
[allen_white]: aster
[craig]: h
[allen_white]: right so you is created this cricket
and if i remember right this was largely
[allen_white]: a volunteer team
[craig]: yes yes it was
[allen_white]: so
[craig]: my
[allen_white]: so they gave it so this wasn't
go and you know get all the staff
[allen_white]: members on this this was mostly a
volunteer team so then you recruited leaders and
[allen_white]: connected people into groups but you did
this a little differently and i believe tom
[allen_white]: was kind of a leading voice in
doing that if i'm not wrong
[craig]: no tom was one of the things
that we learned through expenental groups is the
[craig]: person who has to really champion groups
as your senior
[allen_white]: yeah
[craig]: pastor and it was kind of funny
so so we did this in january because
[craig]: in the rhythm of our community we
really see our church greatest church attendants from
[craig]: christmas to easter
[allen_white]: oh
[craig]: and so we decided to do our
alignment series when our folks gather in the
[craig]: greatest numbers which is in the winter
time and so i have
[allen_white]: hm
[craig]: written a kind of an introductory for
tom to share as he for the first
[craig]: week recruited uh folks to host and
we shared that with you just kind of
[craig]: to take a peek at it and
you came back and said
[allen_white]: m
[craig]: you scared me
[allen_white]: oh
[craig]: that was on me tom was just
reading and doing what i wrote
[allen_white]: h
[craig]: him and i went back and like
oh shoot i got to go back to
[craig]: the drawing board so it was all
crags
[allen_white]: you guys you guys are becoming the
monsters
[craig]: you
[allen_white]: in the
[craig]: were
[allen_white]: closet
[craig]: the monsters
[allen_white]: you're freaking them
[craig]: i
[allen_white]: out
[craig]: dare
[allen_white]: i think
[craig]: because
[allen_white]: that's
[craig]: you're
[allen_white]: what i said
[craig]: so
[allen_white]: but
[craig]: so so so we
[allen_white]: but
[craig]: rewrote
[allen_white]: you pivoted we did that during the
pandemic
[craig]: did a much more positive approach
[allen_white]: a
[craig]: and so for three weeks time it
up and encouraged people to
[allen_white]: h
[craig]: ostagrup
[allen_white]: h oh
[craig]: on a sunday morning and they did
yeah
[allen_white]: let's talk about the result of that
how many groups did you gain how many
[allen_white]: and then talk about the people who
joined these groups
[craig]: yeah so we ended up with twelve
new groups which in twenty three years we've
[craig]: we come close to having twelve groups
any one single time let alone any year
[allen_white]: hm
[craig]: start um m and eight of those
groups finished the six weeks series and we've
[craig]: had five of those groups continue on
this spring and those
[allen_white]: that's
[craig]: groups
[allen_white]: great
[craig]: have reached unchurched relatives neighbors business associates
friends um m it's been amazing
[allen_white]: and so from what you were saying
before and these weren't necessarily people that were
[allen_white]: out of the established groups they were
still meeting but these were folks that maybe
[allen_white]: had never led a group
[craig]: most of these folks had never led
a group before our one pre requisite was
[craig]: do you have eight to twelve friends
co workers or family who can participate with
[craig]: you and join you in a group
and if that's the case you're qualified to
[craig]: facilitate will help you
[craig]: my it's all good
[craig]: so we i'll pause here for a
second so you have a pause
[craig]: yeah
[craig]: so we just simply said to our
church if you have anywhere from eight to
[craig]: twelve friends co workers neighbors anybody that
you could invite to participate group with you
[craig]: then you're qualified to be a facilitator
and we're going to help you we're going
[craig]: to give you a guide you're going
to get coaching from crag and some other
[craig]: coaches every single week to prepare you
and i think that was the first time
[craig]: for a lot of people who went
oh i might be able to do this
[craig]: we had to arrange we had a
couple of groups that one guy particularly i
[craig]: think of had four neighbors and he
met with them and he was doing a
[craig]: really good job until they started asking
him a bunch of questions about faith and
[craig]: he was like you know but we
had coco
[craig]: yeah
[craig]: that's okay you want us to log
out also
[craig]: okay i'll do that very good
[allen_white]: okay i'm back
[craig]: we're back
[allen_white]: now i have two crags
[craig]: oh well
[allen_white]: i don't know i keep telling me
i have low browser storage
[craig]: h
[allen_white]: i don't know what's going
[craig]: m
[allen_white]: on okay well let's well we'll finish
and then we'll go from there yeah crag
[allen_white]: your other crag is coming in so
anyway all right so o i'm sorry let's
[allen_white]: start again with what you were just
sharing yeah
[craig]: so we simply invited people
[allen_white]: yeah
[craig]: if you had eight to twelve friends
neighbors co workers to join you in dealing
[craig]: with some of these monsters then you're
qualified to facilitate it o and people suddenly
[craig]: thought i do have people i would
love to engage spiritual conversation s with and
[craig]: they felt qualified to be a facilitator
and we promise we'll coach you will help
[craig]: you there's some coaches that craig was
working with and craig sentine i think every
[craig]: week out to these coaches and encourage
them asked them for feedback and it was
[craig]: a beautiful thing for those weeks as
a matter of fact we had one guy
[craig]: his name i want tell you but
he asked his neighbors he said hey i'd
[craig]: like to do this group and they
said yes they scratch the surface with what
[craig]: we provided and sudden they started asking
a bunch of other deep spiritual questions he
[craig]: said
[allen_white]: yeah
[craig]: i'm out i'm unqualified for this but
he did it he tried it and he
[craig]: said we won't continue on but were
open the door for spiritual conversations
[allen_white]: that's fantastic that's so fantastic so let
me ask you that's just the last question
[allen_white]: what what's next for mountain view where
you guys headed in the next season or
[allen_white]: with groups or a church we what's
kind of percolating up for you
[craig]: yeah so at least as far as
groups goes what's next is we have been
[craig]: able to with the addition of an
alignment series really for the first time have
[craig]: several ways to help connect people to
groups we have a jump on host opportunity
[craig]: and an alignment series we have some
solid training for folks that come that have
[craig]: led a group in the past but
never a mountain view just to help them
[craig]: understand what what we expect of groups
and group leaders and then we have a
[craig]: brorupis fair in the fall that helps
connect folks that are here and ready to
[craig]: liking plug and play they've come to
mountain view they've had small group of experience
[craig]: in the past they just are ready
to jump in and they don't want to
[craig]: wait until january and so really we
we have a clear multi faceted way to
[craig]: people into and to start new groups
that really i think is gonna continue to
[craig]: help us be a church groups not
just a church with bruce
[craig]: men he
[craig]: i
[allen_white]: program
[craig]: i just i just told tom this
may not be allan's friend
[allen_white]: no it's not i mean i do
i usually record on zoom and everything is
[allen_white]: fine the advantage of this is it
splits out the channel so i can edit
[allen_white]: but yeah it's it's not my friend
so what we'll do is we'll say by
[allen_white]: and hopefully i got everything that i
need otherwise ill be calling you saying hey
[allen_white]: the thing we did yesterday yeah we
need to do it again
[craig]: again
[allen_white]: so anyway right so tom cragg thank
you so much for being with me today
[allen_white]: and thank you for applying these principles
to your church and just what an amazing
[allen_white]: result and i'm just so happy for
you
[craig]: thanks allen thinks allen
[allen_white]: ye all right so i'm goin to
hit