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Authentic, Authoritative, Unapologetic ServiceNow commentary by Cory "CJ" Wesley and Robert "The Duke" Fedoruk
Duke: Hey everyone.
Welcome to another episode
of CJ and the Duke.
As always, I am a co-host
Robert the Duke Fedor.
And I am Corey, CJ Wesley.
This episode is brought
to you by Clear Sky.
Clear Sky is the only identity
governance and security solution
built natively on ServiceNow.
It optimizes enterprise identity and risk
management with a platform first approach.
Look, we have built a great digital world
where we can plug and play people into
our applications and information globally.
Great for speedy operations, but
can be a real nightmare for risk
and security and governance who are
left asking who has access to what?
Who authorized that?
Should they still have it?
When's the last time we checked?
This is why CJ and the Duke love Clear
Sky, all of the benefit of a company
with decades worth of I L M and I g A
experience with a solution that's built
natively on ServiceNow, the platform that
we all trust, clear sky optimized identity
management built natively on ServiceNow.
Check the description below for an
episode, CJ and I did on Clear Sky
as well as how to contact them.
Man.
I love that new intro.
God, you can't get enough of it.
CJ: Dude, like seriously,
one of our best investments.
Duke: All right.
What are we talking about today, man?
CJ: All right, today, duke, we're
gonna talk about the pre bootcamp.
What do you need to know before you get to
the bootcamp and to make your experience
and make sure you get the best out?
Get the most out.
Duke: Yeah, , is it the
right thing for you?
And, give you a certain, , a certain
level of pre-knowledge so that some
of the new, concepts don't completely,
, take you off guard, let's say.
CJ: Yeah, absolutely everything
that you're gonna do in the bootcamp
has like its basis and some skills
that you should bring with you.
And so you should know what those
skills are before you get there,
so you can make sure you have them
so that you can keep up, right?
I know boot, bootcamp is a school, right?
It's a class.
And when you get in there, right, at
least it's gonna move at a certain pace.
That pace will hopefully be, , fast
enough and slow enough, right?
So that you can keep up, but
that you also being challenged.
But the key to knowing whether or not
it's fast enough or slow enough for you
specifically, is knowing what skills you
need to bring to the table before you get.
Duke: That's right.
And what kind of stuff
you're gonna be learning.
And I think there's a great segue into
0.1 is do you have to be technical in
order to take a ServiceNow bootcamp?
CJ: Yeah, that's a good question, duke.
I say you have to have some measure of
technical of being technical, right?
Like technical knowledge.
I, that doesn't mean that
you have to know how to code.
That doesn't mean that you have
to have done like enterprise IT
before or even help desk, right?
But I do think it means you have to
understand a little bit about technology,
before you get to the bootcamp.
and you and all of this
stuff is freely available.
Online, there are a lot
of classes out there.
of course it's YouTube
videos, boom, YouTube videos.
There are a ton of YouTube
videos, and I guess TikTok now, I
don't know, for you kids, right?
you know, there's a ton of videos and
stuff on videos on those mediums, right?
That'll get you caught up on some of
the intro and the basics and stuff.
Do yourself a favor and find that stuff
get read up on it , and we'll talk a
little bit about what those specific,
videos look like or those skills look
like so you know what to search for.
But I do think there is a measure
of being technical that's required
before you enter a class that's
designed to teach you to be technical.
Duke: I, I am emphatically.
yes, there is going to be a
lot of technical stuff now.
I think too many people will disqualify
themselves at that point thinking
I'm not a technical person now.
It's not like you are figuring out
what every pin on a motherboard does.
Not that kind of technical,
CJ: right.
Duke: but a, mindset that is
disciplined around engineering.
Thought, How does this work?
What are the components
that is made out of?
How does it go?
You have to be technical in that
sense, and if you see you blow up
no matter what position you choose.
Some are more technical than
others, but at the end of the day,
you are creating solution for.
Either the company that employs
you, or a company that hires
the company that employs you,
CJ: Right.
Duke: And if you're building a solution,
there's just no way around the fact that
all solutions are somewhat technical.
They are composed of other
pieces and how well those pieces
together could come together.
Is how well the solution, succeeds.
So yes, you do have to be technical.
We'll get into the details on what
things you have to be technical on, but
a, yes, you do have to be technical.
B, don't let that scare you.
Just be prepared for it.
CJ: Yeah, that's a
great way of putting it.
Don't let that scare you.
Just be prepared for it, right?
Because you are seeking to learn
how to use a technological platform
to do work for folks, so, yeah.
Think it's disingenuous to approach
it thinking that there's no technical
that you won't have to learn, right?
Like you will have to be technical at,
at some point , you know, the evolution
of your skillset will go that way.
absolutely.
What else you got, duke?
Uh, let's see.
Point number two on this one is
know what ServiceNow is used for.
What do you think about that?
Duke: Well, we did a whole episode on it.
It's called Work Is bs.
We will have have a link
in the description below.
Everybody take a shot.
CJ: No doubt.
Duke: I find that it's really difficult
for people to describe the value that
they've, that they can do and the
types of things they can do on the
platform unless they really have a firm.
I'm talking like you feel it
in your guts understanding of
what it is ServiceNow does.
And if you just take that question and
meditate on it, what is ServiceNow?
And you're not finding a good answer,
like, oh, it's kind of an ITT SM
and efficiency and da da da da.
No.
go back, listen to our work is BS program.
and we'll just, we'll give
you the bullet points here.
Work is bull crap.
We all love our jobs, most of us.
but there's stuff about work.
, all of the.
organization of work is really what sucks.
So how do you know what stuff you
have to do, You always have more
stuff to do than time to do it in.
So which is the most important?
That's work prioritization.
Is that piece of work part of a series
of other jobs for one overarching task.
So how is the work sequenced?
Is this more important
than that prioritization?
I'm just a wheel in the
cog of a bigger machine.
So how does work?
And these are all problems we
have, in doing work without
systems like ServiceNow.
And so system ServiceNow is a system to
make work more visible, more governed,
more automated, more integrated.
CJ: So absolutely Duke, I think.
Work is BS man.
Like, first of all, I love
that rant, it never gets old.
but you're absolutely right.
it's all for me, it's all about,
, knowing how you wanna create
the efficiencies around, process
management, around work management.
Really.
It's like you, when you're walking
through any kind of process and
everything's a process, right?
We don't think about.
You know, our daily lives that way.
often, and we definitely don't think
about jobs that way in terms of
like, you know, what's the process?
But most things that you do are a process.
And so, when you start to break it
down , and figure out, okay, like
step one, step two, step three,
step four steps, step five, like
ServiceNow maps directly to that,
you know, and the optimization of it.
What does that all mean?
first of all, you should re, you
should go and, um, do the intro to
ServiceNow course over at now Learning,
that's the first place to start.
That's gonna get you, um,
get you caught up on how to
actually utilize the platform.
Like what ServiceNow does
and how it does it, right?
Like, you know, where to click, how to
click, you know, the whole gonna give
you some good fundamentals on what
the platform's designed to do, right?
You know?
Duke: and listen to our episode.
Seriously.
This is like the fifth time I've said it,
but you've gotta feel this in your guts.
And I think if you listen to that
episode, you will feel it in your
guts every job you've ever had.
My first job was pedaling
an ice cream bicycle.
that or shampoo carpets, I
can't remember at this point.
Anyways.
It wasn't the work that was the problem.
It was just like all the craziness around
managing that work and there's tons of it.
So everybody's felt, everybody has felt.
What ServiceNow is for now,
learn how to articulate it.
So if you, if you know that going into
one of these boot camps, , beyond just
like, oh, ServiceNow sounds like a
great gig, it is , but you'll have a way
easier time if you fundamentally know
in your heart what ServiceNow is for.
Then you can, like on a, under a
microscope, you can zoom in and
figure out what types of work
within the ecosystem are of real.
CJ: Yeah.
Yeah.
Like that, all of that, right?
And all of that stuff is, is what
you're gonna build on when you start
building your service down career, right?
Because you're gonna see that stuff.
Client's gonna come to you and
say, Hey, we need a service down
person gonna do X, Y, and Z.
Right?
That X, Y, and Z is gonna be some
of this stuff we just talked about.
Right.
And so you're gonna have to figure out how
to map, the, that knowledge against the
client's desire and deliver value, right?
That's why internalizing it, like
Duke said, in your gut, right, like
is a super important thing, right?
Because then it allows you
to talk about it with, , with
some degree of ex of expertise.
Duke: Okay.
item number three.
and this is kind of like the first
of technical concepts you're gonna
have to come to grips with and just
understand like as fast as you can
read the English language, that's
how well you have to understand
this concept, and that is databases,
especially relational databases.
CJ: Yeah.
Duke: And I think if you're not, if
you're not coming from it, or application
design, maybe the idea of a database is
like a little bit scary or confusing.
So we're gonna break it down
really, really, really fast.
So imagine, Corey, imagine, imagine
we'd like started up a help desk, right?
CJ: Okay.
Duke: we got like zero tools,
like maybe we got Excel.
So what would be the first thing we'd do?
We go into Excel and we'd make
out all the columns, right?
And there's like first name, last
name, phone number, what the problem
is, what building they're in.
the category of the problem.
Et except everything we
care about, about a ticket.
We'll just write it in Excel.
Can we all agree that
you know, what we do?
CJ: yes, as long as you'll allow
me to say how much I hate Excel
Duke: Okay, but pick any other
tool, any digital tool, right?
You're just gonna write
down a bunch of stuff.
Okay?
Now, everything that, what
you've essentially done is
you've created a table, right?
You have a sheet, and you've
got columns across the top.
Those are all the things we care about.
And that's, the columns in the table or
CJ: Right.
Duke: fields, columns, properties.
You'll hear those terms all the time.
CJ: Yep.
Duke: And, but what's the
real problem with that, Corey?
if you have a table, you
can store everything in it.
What's the first problem that comes up?
CJ: Oh, first problem I always think
about, you got too much there, right?
Like it's really hard to,
Duke: in terms of scrolling?
Yeah.
CJ: yeah.
Like you get too many
records there, right?
Like, and the more horizon width
you get in the table, right?
Like the harder it is at that point
to form any relationships between
the data that you have, right?
Duke: so I'll say what I hate is the
fact that our friend Alice, Alice
Gianopoulos from 22 Rei Goose Road calls,
and he calls once every couple days.
CJ: All right.
Duke: Is anybody else like sweating
about the fact that you're typing in
Aand Gianopoulos from 22 Resti Road?
Like how do you even spell Resti Gush?
And how are you gonna rely on 10
people on the help desk to spell
that consistently, every single time?
CJ: Ah, I follow you.
Duke: You see what I mean?
It,
CJ: I do.
Yeah.
Duke: it's like a con, like
God bless the dude, right?
Love his name.
Sounds fun.
Really fun.
Not fun to spell.
CJ: Right,
Duke: And are we gonna take the
extra minute every time we're
gonna ask this dude our favorite
customer every single time?
How do you spell your name?
CJ: right.
Duke: And so anyways, so what you do is
you create a separate Excel sheet and
you say, let's put a place for all of
our users and we'll track first name,
last name, location, phone number, and
then that way on our main sheet when
we're just taking help desk tickets.
All I have to say is get me customer
one, aand Gianopoulos, and I don't
have to worry about the spelling.
All I've said is customer one, please.
So that's what we call
a relational database.
Now, because the incident table
or a ticketing table relates
to some other table, when I
want a user, I go to the user.
When I want a location, I
go to the location table.
When I go to the company table,
and then each of these tables
can store only the stuff we care
about, that thing and the table.
CJ: Yeah.
See, that's what I meant when I said
like, you know, two minutes, like the,
uh, the one sheet iss, uh, way too,
way too large horizontally, right?
Like if you're trying to store users
and companies and locations and
incidents all in one table, right?
Like technically you can do that.
Yeah, it's nasty looking, right?
But like technically you do, you
just keep, you just keep adding
an infinite number of fields.
But how the heck do you use that?
Like you can't fundamentally, right?
So that, and that's where the relation
relational database comes in, right?
Like if you have those, those
extra tables, um, then you
can refer to those, right?
And so when you, the first thing
you, you notice when going into
service now, like if you're opening
an incident, incident, right?
There is a field there for user.
It's a reference feel, right?
That means it references, it
references another table, right?
And it references the user table.
And so then you pull up a, uh, a
view of the users there, and you go
ahead and click on that and brings
you in and it brings the user there.
Now you wanna reference a location
and you wanna reference, you
know, so on and so forth, right?
So that's the, that, that
is the beauty of, of.
Of the relational, uh, data do,
which I, I totally agree with you.
You can keep these different tables
with validated data in separate places.
Right?
And you can maintain them in
separate places, but you can also
reuse them in separate places too.
Duke: Yep.
And zero human error on it on form.
, right?
Every, everything is stored where it needs
to be stored, everything is maintained
where it needs to be TA maintained.
We can probably do a whole
episode on just the miracle.
It really is a miracle, right?
Like , relational databases are a miracle,
, in terms of organizing the data.
but you do have to know this
because ServiceNow is a relational
database, and when you build your
solutions, you're going to have
to understand like the impact of.
Like so many times I've had to correct
people going through the cohorts cuz
they're building whole other user tables.
They're building whole
other location tables.
I'm like, why are you
building another one of these?
Well, this solution needs one too.
Well, you've got one of them.
That's the miracle of it.
You use that one,
CJ: Right.
Duke: right?
so that's one of the technical
things you'll have to know.
I think you should know pre bootcamp.
CJ: Yeah,
Duke: else?
We gotta.
CJ: Well, you shouldn't,
you should know the types of
service down jobs Duke, right?
Like, you know, what are you likely
to be able, what are you likely to
come out of a bootcamp doing right?
From an admin to developer,
so on and so forth.
Duke: yeah, It surprises me how
not known this is like the, I get
a lot of questions on just this.
I mean, we did three episodes on
the different types of work, right?
We did.
We did admin, we did ba, we did Architect.
That was our first episode.
, CJ: there's a ton, it's not just,
you know, admin, or developer.
An architect, right?
Like those are kinda like fundamentals.
Like, or maybe, so to a certain
extent I classify those as almost
experience levels to a certain degree
Duke: Yeah, I could.
I mean there's definitely, there's
some element of that, I get
CJ: like a hard mapping.
Right.
But it, you know, it, to
a certain degree, right?
Like you do need a little bit
more experience to be an architect
than you do to be an admin.
Right.
But there is a Yeah, but I can definitely
see a direct path from admin to
architect and skipping dev Because an
admin, you know, in, in a lot of ways,
we'll know a lot about the platform
and, and can know a lot about the
platform without building code on it.
Duke: And then, then there's just the way
the market overlaps these thingss anyway,
like there's so many admin slash devs,
CJ: Yeah.
Duke: there's so many.
one man bands, one woman
bands in the ServiceNow world.
CJ: Yeah, especially customer side, right?
I get to fill in that, you know,
the ServiceNow job market is still,
optimized for the one person gig, right?
Like, I, I own the instance, I'm the
only ServiceNow person at my job.
there are 25,000 people using it
and, and, and I do everything right.
but, a bit of a sidetrack there.
But I mean, if, When I think about types
of service down jobs as a whole, right?
I think about our niches episode, right?
some of those things were.
Once you come out of a bootcamp and
once you're skilled up, what are you
gonna do in a ServiceNow ecosystem?
Are you gonna be a developer?
An architect?
That's one thing.
Like that whole set of, you know, skills
is one thing, but are you going into like
asset management or C M D B, or it T B M
or whatever the, name of it is this month.
Or are you gonna go to go on to
something like, I Tom, right?
Like in, if you've got like it bonafide
that you can mix in with your now
new ServiceNow, expertise, so and
so see, things like that, right?
That's what I think about when
I think about like the type
of ServiceNow jobs out there.
are these niches that you
can slide yourself into
Duke: Oh man.
I think it's really important that we
drag that dead horse out to swing a
couple more times out Cause I think one
thing that newcomers have completely
undue pressure, irrational amounts of
pressure is go pick a niche in ServiceNow.
And I'm like, how on earth are you
gonna pick a niche in service now when
you don't even have, you're at the
point where you're gonna start a boot.
And you can be like a couple weeks
in, maybe not even in, and somebody's
telling you, you gotta pick a niche.
Like no, you don't like, what you
have to do is learn the fundamentals.
CJ: Yes.
Duke: All of the veteran niched
players in the ServiceNow market
had something else when they got
to the fundamentals or they adopted
something once the fundamentals was.
Right.
I'm sure there were people who
were like pristine SecOps people
before they even saw ServiceNow.
Right.
But they had something beforehand.
They had a ServiceNow process
niche before they had the
technical shops on ServiceNow.
Right.
But then a lot of us, me, , you know, I,
I was doing plain old admin stuff, plain
old dev stuff until somebody basical.
borderline forced me to
look into I TBM and spm.
But there's there, I don't think there's
a path where it's like, I don't have the
ServiceNow fundamentals and I don't have
a process niche preexisting where you
can walk in and say, this is my niche.
I don't know how you could do it.
CJ: Yeah, I mean, it's a
really good point, duke.
and I think this is kind of a, a, a, a
part in the, in the, in the, , episode
where there is, I want to acknowledge
a little bit of a split here because,
they're the folks who are gonna come to.
bootcamp, and not doing
ServiceNow, who will have some
technology experience, right?
Who will have, some
process experience, right?
Real world processes for whatever
that process might be, right?
Like it's, like we said,
it's a lot of them out there.
and then there are gonna be
some folks who are approaching
this from the standpoint of.
Not having done anything that
could directly be related to a
ServiceNow niche in their past.
Right.
And so, like you said, if you're in
that ladder group and you've never done
anything that you can see, , obviously
relates to a ServiceNow niche, right?
How you create a niche in
a, in a bootcamp, right?
Or in your first or second
ServiceNow class, right?
Like, that's impossible, right?
don't even try.
Like, you just need to be
learning the fundamentals of the
platform, like Duke said, right?
Like, just learn how ServiceNow works.
Get your skill up, and
how ServiceNow works.
And then you'll find the parts
of it, through experience that
kind of you gravitate towards
and then you double down.
Right.
Like once you figure out, oh man, I
really freaking love asset management,
then you double down there and then you
start figuring out like some industry
specific asset management training or
understanding and marry that with your
ServiceNow, you know, skills, right?
And now you are industry leading
asset management resource, right?
And that, and that changes the
way the market looks at you.
Duke: I'm gonna, I'm gonna go
ahead and disagree a little bit.
CJ: Oh yeah.
Conflict.
Woo
Duke: almost 80 episodes.
This is the first time,
CJ: Yeah, right.
Duke: I, I think you gotta be comfortable
with not being industry leading anything
CJ: All right.
Duke: for this part of your career,
CJ: Yeah.
Duke: asset management is a business
discipline , like, you go back to
Egypt, ? While they're building
the pyramids and talk about assets
and they will understand you
CJ: Fair enough.
Duke: Um, and it, it's, it's a,
it's a hard discipline of its own
meaning, like either by school
or by, life work experience.
People become asset managers, but
I don't think people become asset
managers by reading something or
like studying the ServiceNow tool.
And now I understand how
asset management works.
No.
You've seen what ServiceNow's
interpretation is on some of the
asset management process, but you
haven't managed assets for an.
CJ: Right.
Duke: And so like, I, I don't say
that to discourage, like don't go
into the platform and don't aspire to
be, IT Asset manager, no, do Aspire,
but realize that there's gonna be a
whole separate learning path on that.
Like Lawrence Tindell from Glide
Fast do just published a whole book,
like a whole ass book, on on it.
Asset management and you know, dudes
got courseware all over the place.
Like It's a whole other
discipline of learning.
Did I mischaracterize your position?
Sorry.
CJ: No, you're good, man.
I, I, my, my point there, was that,
I, I think at a certain point you will,
uh, Start to feel a, a, a bit of the
platform more strongly than others, right?
Yeah.
And at that point, that's when you wanna
double down on some additional learning.
in that process that exists outside
of ServiceNow, now you wanna double
down on your ServiceNow learning on
the plat on the, , process too, right?
Cause you wanna know how to implement
it inside the platform, but, these are
to your point, and I think this is the
part that I skipped past, but these are
bus verifiable and bonafide business
processes with a whole body of work and
knowledge that exists, around them outside
of the service Now ecosystem, right?
Like if you want to become leading.
In that area, in the ServiceNow
ecosystem, you have to understand how it
works from a business perspective also
outside of the ServiceNow ecosystem.
So you can bring , those
qualities to your, um, to your
engagements with your clients.
Duke: Yep.
I would learn it outside of ServiceNow.
it's so, so important.
. Um, I think maybe we didn't have
this on the, on the, on the board,
but, Maybe we can talk a little bit
about how people integrate their
past lives to an to an advantage.
CJ: Ooh.
Yeah, that's a good one.
all right, so I, I'll kick You
wanna kick that one off or you want
Duke: Sure.
I'll take this one.
CJ: Yeah, go for
Duke: especially in the context of
next gens, cuz next gens are, is
it not people who already have like
significant life experience is if is
NextGen for everybody or is it for
people who are doing work changes?
CJ: Not entirely sure.
Duke: Okay.
Near, near my, so for those people
who are maybe have already had
a career, And they're switching,
they're switching careers.
I get a lot of, when I talk to them,
I hear a lot of like, it's an, it's
anxiety because I came from another
world and I don't know this world.
That's true.
Okay.
But that gives you a unique advantage over
maybe other people who haven't because
you've seen a lot of how life works.
Like work life works that somebody
with not as much work experience
would not have experienced right now.
So like when we talk about how, the
whole work is BS thing, , and all the
things about organizing work and how
frustrating and, damaging that can be.
Like, you've al you already get that.
So you have the ca the ability of
integrating that into your ServiceNow
learning from a, from a place of guts,
from a place of lived experience.
You can understand why these
solutions need to exist.
CJ: absolutely.
And you know, duke, there isn't enough
talk about bringing your past with
you to your future, there's a lot
of thought on this that you're going
to learn something that's gonna make
you better, as if what you brought
to the table wasn't good enough.
and I just don't think that that's true.
Um, I think, all skills, you know,
help you over the course of your life.
I mean, I, there's a lot
that I've learned, from even
before I was working, right?
Like I, my first job was at, um,
Popeye's Chicken, right when I was 16.
And there's a lot that I
learned there that I still bring
to like client engagements.
and you somebody say, oh,
what do you mean by that?
I mean, you're working at Popeye's
Chicken, like you, your first job is
customer service, And everybody you
speak to there, has a request, a task
for you to a certain degree, right?
Like, and you gotta execute it.
And how do you execute tasks,
you go through a process, right?
Like all, you know what I mean?
Like
Duke: like, how many McDonald's out
there are run by like four people?
Like there's four people run that
whole thing's like just carloads,
after carloads, after carloads of
people every minute, and it's just
like four people just like blah.
And it's just like they
got the process down.
CJ: dude, I ran a Popeyes
with two people, right?
Like I wasn't running it right, like
I, I, I was on the back end, but it
was me and a manager and We ran that
store with two people until help.
you know what I mean?
And it's because we both knew the
processes really well, and we both
were really good at the job, right?
And we both, you know,
focused on execution.
And we both, we're focused on
customer service and, you know,
we did all of those things.
And so all, what my point to all of
that is, right, like you could take
all of that stuff and map that directly
to your next thing in life, right?
Because it's still valuable, right?
Don't throw it away.
because you, you went through that
experience, that experience was
hard earned, don't throw it away.
Like take it and figure out
how you wanna map that to your
next thing and then do that,
Duke: I would say at the very least
what you bring is knowledge of a work
paradigm that somebody else hasn't
experienced, and therefore you have all
kinds of inspiration fuel for stuff you
can build on ServiceNow to up your skill.
That's another episode.
We did a whole episode on that link in
the description below, but shoot, man.
Again, my first, job.
I can't, I, honest to God, I can't
remember if it was shampoo carpets
or riding the ice cream bike.
But let's take the ice cream bike episode.
, what on earth can service that?
Teach me about ServiceNow.
Build an app for managing
a ice cream bike franchise.
and just think about that.
How many bikes do you own?
How much do they cost?
Can you depreciate them?
When was the last time they were.
That's just the bikes.
Okay?
Now you've got a central hub with all
your ice cream inventory in it, right?
How much inventory do
you actually have in it?
And every bike for every route,
every single day will take
inventory out of that hub inventory.
So every day you've gotta recheck that
inventory, and every day you've gotta
check the sales performance of the
bike against that inventory, right?
Because they may have taken out a hundred
units of ice cream, but somehow it's
only come back with 95 units of payment.
CJ: Right.
Duke: And so, and then
there's the cash floats.
Did the p, did the bikers come back with
as much or less cash float for making
change and such as they did beforehand?
And then you have routes,
like some of those routes are
more profitable than others.
And so how are you gonna distribute
those routes evenly amongst your riders?
What happens if one of your get sick?
It's insane the amount of app.
build inspiration.
You can just get out of something,
out of knowing how something
works that nobody else knows.
CJ: Right.
Duke: Have you ever been a guitar tech
at a concert like ? I haven't, but
I'd love to figure out how that works.
CJ: No, seriously.
Right.
Duke: Have you ever been a, like
a hair stylist, a beautician?
Have you ever been like a, like
somebody on a construction site?
Like I don't, there's just.
CJ: Man, I, you know , what I have been
Duke is I, I helped run a conference
once before, it was like a knowledge
conference, but not like for ServiceNow or
an IT or anything or anything like that.
But I was, I was, um, coordinating IT
operations for a, global, Conference
for the, um, logistics portion, of,
uh, um, distributor who was there.
And they were, um, they were
responsible for a lot of the inbound
product and making sure it gets
distributed to all of the booths.
And so that you know, that their
clients had the things that they needed
in order to like spin up their expo.
. Right.
And, and actually, you know,
talk to their customers and
demonstrating all that kind of stuff.
And I was helping them coordinate
the logistics and it portion of it.
Right.
And that was cool.
Right.
, when, when I think about that,
it's like that is a skill set
that, that is weird, really weird.
And, and a job that's really odd to have.
People have run like a professional
conference like that, or had
any kind of involvement at, from
like a massive scale like that.
from literally, tracking packages from
the time that they're shipped to when
they get to the loading dock here and
making sure that trades know that they're
here and they move the things, all that
right, like the whole process again.
Right?
Like no matter where you look,
right, you can find, aspects where
ServiceNow would've helped you in
the past and how to relate your past
experience to ServiceNow in the future.
Duke: Yeah, at, at minimum it
gives you that it may give you
other social advantages too.
Like there's one example I keep giving
about, a woman I talked to, who was a
phlebotomist and she was talking about,
how that could work to her advantage.
And I'm like, imagine what a phlebotomist
has to experience every day in terms
of like interpersonal relationships.
CJ: Mm-hmm.
Duke: hi, I got five seconds to establish
a rapport with you because I'm gonna
shove this sharp metal object into your
arm You know, and drop blood out of it.
, like that's what they have to do and
they have to establish a rapport and
trust and get you to not freak out.
And they have to do it in seconds.
And it's like we have
really tough stakeholders.
CJ: Right.
Right.
It's like, yeah, okay,
completely different.
Definition of tough
Duke: Yeah.
one time at a, at a
company I worked for, they.
Like expec forces guy who came
in to be like an i l problem
and, uh, incident manager.
And they're literally telling
this guy like, are you sure
you're ready for our stakeholders?
Like, are you sure?
Ready for our , our
ferocious stakeholders?
he's like, yeah, I'm jumping outta
planes 800 feet and walking into villages
where I don't speak the language.
Hoping to find friends I, I'll be okay.
CJ: Right.
Like, yeah, no, I, I got this
Duke: So I think that one more
thing you can bring with you
is a mindset that even though.
You are going into something new.
Maybe it's got all kinds of richer
financial reward for you, but
don't discount where you came from,
no matter where you came from.
CJ: Yes.
Duke: And that's in terms of
work, hobby, social, whatever.
All of those things will inform
your imagination about ways you
can apply ServiceNow, and that
will fundamentally change how well
you're able to learn ServiceNow.
I think that's all I got.
CJ: Yeah, man, I think, I
think we wrapped it up, duke.
I think that's the end.
I think that's the end.
Duke: 79 episodes.
Still no outro All right, cool.