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Art of Spousing is for marriages that what to move from being mundane to becoming masterpiece relationships. Hosts James and Lisa Duvall share truths and lessons learned from their 30 years of marriage and over a decade of teaching, coaching, and speaking on marriage.
James: Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the art of spousing. We're James and Lisa. And we're so excited you're here with us today.
Lisa: today. Yeah, because today we're talking about something every married couple faces on a daily basis and often several times a day. Are you wondering what it is? It's making decisions together.
There is such a thing as decision fatigue and in marriage and family life. I resonate with this reality. That's for sure. Decision making is a constant in marriage. Some are small, like what's for dinner, others may be massive, like where are we going to live, or how do we parent through this tough season.
The truth is, how we make decisions together determines the kind of partnership we're building, not to mention the level of stress we're adding to our relationship.
James: Right, because if you're not intentional, decision making can turn into one of two things.
It can be a battleground, or it could be a passive aggressive Cold War.
Lisa: Ah, been there. So today we're digging into why decision making as a team is crucial, why it's hard, and how can we actually do it better?
James: And as always, we'll bring you some Biblical wisdom, some practical tools, and maybe a few stories that highlight just how not to do it.
Lisa: I have plenty of those stories. The decision is which example of decision making we will decide to use
James: That's a
Lisa: yet. Another decision.
James: Yeah, I see what you did there. Okay, let's get
Lisa: one of the biggest mistakes couples make is thinking that unity means agreeing on everything,
James: Right. Like, oh, if we're a good team, we'll just naturally want the same things. No, that's not how it works. That's called being the same person. In Newsflash, you're married to someone totally different than you.
Lisa: Hopefully. Otherwise, that would be really weird.
James: weird.
Lisa: But this is huge. Biblical unity isn't always about thinking alike. It's about thinking together.
James: Philippians chapter 2, verse 2, the Apostle Paul says, Then make my joy complete by being like minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind.
That doesn't mean agree on every decision immediately. It means value the same mission, work towards the same goals, and love each other through the process.
Lisa: We have made five significant moves in our marriage. All five of those moves within the first seven or eight years of our marriage, each carrying unique circumstances to consider before making the decision. That's a lot of
James: that's a lot of Yeah.
Lisa: so one that stands out is our move from a small town in Kansas to. Where we live now, West Palm Beach, Florida. Our firstborn was not even a year old. We had only been in Kansas for just shy of two years. We had been in the same denomination in our church world. All of my life. I had been in that denomination and all of our married life and your calling and vocation.
Was in that same denomination. Right. And we were making the decision, are we going to move away from all that? I was very familiar with those norms and all the values associated with that. And I thought I knew what to expect. So a change like this would really upset my little safe, familiar world.
James: Right? That's true. And moving from the denomination to a non-denominational.
What really was a big deal, and plenty of unknowns for both of us. You actually had some pretty wild ideas what this type of church would look like.
Lisa: Well, I was thinking if I came up with all these stipulations, it may deter the decision.
I was certain this was going to be a snake handling. Church kind of people. I was concerned that Sunday services would entail all these activities that were outlandish. There were a ton of factors to consider in this decision, and I was making some of them a little bit more harder to deal with. I had this silly list of qualifications that would take this move out.
Like, okay, if there are snakes, or if there's orange shag rug carpet, we're not
James: going.
Yeah, because the orange shag carpet thing, that's important because God can't move in the church where there's orange shag
Lisa: It's actually in, NOAA, third chapter.
James: don't think that's there.
Lisa: Bless your heart. You had a lot to deal with me. These certainly were not normal factors you could navigate.
I do remember this. We wanted to both come together on this decision takeaway here is we weren't trying to win against each other. We were trying to win together.
James: So when you and your spouse face decisions, you have to remind yourselves we're on the same team. You don't have to think alike, but you do have to think together.
Lisa: I love that idea of we don't have to think alike, but we have to think together. Okay, so let's get practical. How do you and your spouse actually make decisions? Because let's be honest, some of us.
are quick deciders and some of us are overthinkers. Overthinker right here.
James: and I'm the make a decision figure it out later kind of guy,
Lisa: you are actually that person for sure, which is a perfect recipe for tension if we're not aware of it.
James: Yeah.
Lisa: let's walk through a few decision making types and see if you can identify yourself. The quick decider sees the solution fast and wants to move forward. James Duvall, the worrier. data, time, maybe a spreadsheet, and needs to know all the ins and outs.
James: That's you.
Lisa: Lisa. The avoider hopes the problem will just magically resolve itself. And then that consensus seeker, this person wants everyone to agree before moving forward and that everyone may mean the whole county that they live in. Right.
James: So if you don't know which one you are, just ask your spouse. I'm sure they already know.
Lisa: That is for sure. And listen, if you and your spouse have different styles, it's not a problem. It's a gift. If you learn to value each other's approach, you will make better decisions together than you would have made alone. We have grown in this area on leveraging each other's styles, James.
We've learned that you need to slow down, and I actually need to move faster.
James: Sometimes.
Lisa: So,
James: Yeah, I hear
Lisa: this is especially true when you're making big decisions, like a job change, a move, or even planning the family budget. One spouse may see the vision clearly and be ready to go, and then the other is still trying to figure out if it's even safe to move forward.
James: remember a time recently in our marriage where you, had to make a decision to go have a really hard conversation with your mom, and she lived in Memphis at the time, and you were wrestling with it, and you said, James, I need to go have this conversation with you. My mom
Lisa: I went to the restroom and I came back and I need to book my
James: I'd already picked your flights to go, right?
So sometimes, you know, if you're slow on making decisions, it's good to have somebody who's a little bit more quick to help you activate those decisions. Right?
Lisa: right.
James: So here's a great analogy to think about in this. If one of you is able to process decisions faster than the other, a great way to help each other is by building a bridge, to help them more slow processor.
Or the more present oriented person, we've talked about voices and some voices are more present and some more future oriented, so the more present oriented person to be able to see the possible future.
Lisa: I just want to put a little need to know statement out here. Slower processor doesn't mean that the person is incapable or incompetent. it just means they have to have more discussions around the decisions so that we can come together better.
So I think sometimes when we think slower, that means not good. And faster means good. Both of them are not leveraged together.
James: so think about this. Imagine you have a deep ravine in front of you, and on one side is where you and your spouse are right now. That's the present reality. On the other side of the ravine is the result of the decision or the vision, the goal, what you're trying to move towards, trying to decide what you're going to move towards.
Now, again, if one spouse can see the results or see the right space to move quicker, they can easily jump to the other side of ravine, right? But here's the reality. Only about 27 percent of people. The Pioneer Voice, the Connector Voice, and the Creative Voice think that way. They can quickly move across the ravine to the other side.
The other 73%, so the Nurturers and the Guardians, which by the way, it's highly likely represented by your spouse, is standing there saying, hold on, where's the bridge? How do we get to the other side?
Lisa: When you said you jump, you go to jump over the ravine. Just so you know, I fell and broke my legs in my mind.
That's what happened. I just fell and broke my legs. For the more present oriented thinkers like myself. It's not that they don't, or we don't like the vision. It's just that we need to know how we're going to get there. Is it safe? Will we make it across with the kids, the finances and responsibilities and everything else in the world we're carrying?
And most importantly, are our legs going to be intact?
James: That's you like anytime there's a decision or we're gonna lose our legs,
Lisa: That's right, that's right.
James: So if you're the more future oriented spouse, you can't just say, trust me, we'll figure it out because eventually you're going to leave your more present oriented spouse behind. You actually need to build a bridge for your spouse to feel safe moving forward.
Lisa: you just want them to be irritated.
James: right. So let me give you a few ways that you can actually build a bridge in decision making.
The first is if you're the future oriented spouse, paint a vision clearly, help your spouse see why this decision matters. And how it aligns with your shared goals. Secondly, listen to concerns. You know, your spouse's need for safety and security isn't doubt. It could actually be wisdom. And the third thing is a pilot decision.
If it's possible, test the idea before fully committing some small steps, building a model, maybe helping your spouse have confidence in it. And then the fourth thing, invite your spouse's perspective into the process. Don't just ask them to follow.
Involve them in shaping the path forward. move at a pace that works for both of you. Sometimes future oriented voices need to slow down so both spouses can move forward together.
Lisa: You know, those are some great how to steps to build a bridge. I love that. In our current season, we have several aspects of our life.
I would say a lot of aspects in our life currently that we're making big decisions. Some are heavy, hard decisions. Some are daily, frustrating things. But some are about dreaming about the future, which is exciting and adventurous. And James, you can see all that. Those adventurous dream building, the vision, you can see in your head.
I used to think that this wasn't possible. There's no way, I thought everyone had to think the way I did. But 30 years later, it has been proven. Again, I always want to acknowledge when you're right, you can see it, it's
James: recorded. She said I was right.
Lisa: however, I need a dry erase board or multiple large sticky notes and see it all lined out.
James: right.
Lisa: the truth is James, you honor me that I need to see them that way. And so you go get the large post it notes. You do this because you know, the goal isn't to drag me across their ravine. It's to build a bridge together so we can walk forward safely and confidently. And actually it's just more enjoyable, no matter what the decision is circling.
James: Yeah, some of our lifelong friends we've known them for you know It's ever since we came to South Florida is Brandon and Michelle Cato Brandon is a future oriented voice and Michelle is a lot like you She's a nurturer, but Brandon's a builder and they over their marriage.
Lisa: Literally a builder, a house
James: Yeah, they've built multiple homes and move from home to home to home. And one of the things that he shared with us one time is that he actually will help Michelle see the vision of the house before it comes to reality by building small models. So he'll build a toilet out of cardboard and put it in the location where it is, or he'll build, a cabinet out of the cardboard and put it where the kitchen's going to be so that she can begin to see.
It's actually building a bridge for her towards a future, which is really powerful.
Lisa: I love it. I think they have had one house
James: they're married.
Lisa: They're married. I believe it's true. If you want to learn more about whether you are naturally more present or a future oriented voice, like James has been talking about, you can take the free five voices assessment with the link in the show notes. It'll be so helpful to you.
James: We want to ask you to consider scheduling a two day marriage reboot with Lisa and I..
Lisa: Yeah, the Marriage Reboot is an exclusive one on one experience that will supercharge your marriage. you will discover your marriage purpose and get a real plan to start living into it. The process is designed to give you clarity in every aspect of your marriage. work together to craft plans for multiple domains of life and create a solid framework that will help you manage and continually renew your relationship for the future.
James: This is a private experience where you and your spouse will have our undivided attention as your marriage coaches will help you identify where you've been, define where you are now and discover where you want to go together in the future. We know the marriage reboot will make a huge difference in your marriage.
Lisa: Totally. You can find out more about it at artistspousing. com backslash marriage coaching. You can also message us on Instagram and we'll send you a link so you can schedule a 30 minute call with James and I to hear more about the experience and understand how it would be great for you guys.
So we've talked about how unity and decision making isn't about always agreeing, but it's always about thinking together. I love that. And we just walked through the idea of building a bridge, helping each other feel safe when stepping into these big decisions.
Because if one of you is ready to jump and the other is saying, Hey, where's the bridge? You're not in conflict. You're just wired differently. And that's actually a good thing.
James: now let's go into talking how to actually navigate decision making when you really don't see eye to eye because there's going to be a lot of times that you're just not going to see eye to eye and sometimes you don't agree and that's not shocking but maybe it's a financial decision or Something like, do we buy the car now or wait?
Or a parenting decision? Should we homeschool or send them to public school? Or maybe something simpler but still frustrating like, should we get another dog?
Lisa: Oh, well, yeah, I feel like you threw that one in there, the decisions already been made No to the other dog, but I do love you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Here's the thing. When you and your spouse don't agree, you have two choices, another decision to make. You can, you get to decide you're going to dig your heels in and make it a win, lose battle, or you are going to seek to understand and move forward as a team. And let's be honest, when the emotions are high, our natural tendency is to fight for our own way.
We want to be heard, validated, and if we're really honest, we want to be right. But here's what we've learned. Marriage isn't about winning arguments, it's about winning together. And that doesn't mean you have to ignore your own perspective or just go along with what your spouse wants. It means approaching the conversation in a way That actually moves your relationship forward instead of creating resentment. And that requires three things.
James: The first thing requires is listening, not just debating. I think sometimes we listen just long enough to find a weak spot in our spouse's reasoning so we can jump in with our counterpoint, but that's not listening. That's actually strategizing. And for a long time in our relationship early on, that was basically how I operated.
Right? Yeah. And when we do that, we aren't trying to understand. We're just trying to win.
Lisa: There have been so many times that we're discussing something and I realize I'm not actually trying to hear you matter of fact I'm not even listening to you I'm just mentally preparing my argument for when it's my turn to talk and when I do that I miss what you're really saying like literally miss it But when I shift my focus from how do I convince James I'm right to what is he actually saying?
Everything changes, because when someone truly feels heard, they're much more willing to hear you. So practically, that means slow down and really listen before responding. Maybe ask follow up questions like, tell me more about this. Why does it matter to you? How do you see it? Repeating back what I'm hearing so I'm not dismissing you and that the tone of that repeating back I might add needs to be one that is curious.
Not one that is I'm annoyed
James: Right, so if you were to ask me why I want a dog, it's because, right?
Lisa: So
James: let's move on. Okay, so the second thing is being open to new perspectives. And I'll be honest, this one has been really hard for me because I like to believe that my way is the right way.
Lisa: You do have strong opinions and you do present a compelling case. Even though you've softened your debating skills, you still can present a powerful
James: Here's what I've learned. If we see a decision completely differently, that's actually a good thing because it means we're bringing two different strengths, two different sets of wisdom, and two different life experiences to the table.
Yeah.
Lisa: You are a big picture thinker. You see the possibilities that I sometimes cannot see because I'm so focused on the details and all the next steps.
James: Yeah. And at the same time, you see the potential risk that I could possibly just plow right through, right?
Lisa: Exactly, there have been times when you have suggested something that felt too risky or out of my reach and I immediate reaction was no, not happening. I am a self identified dream killer. It took a good number of years from learning you just how you are, that you have some good ideas. And if I would not have killed them, they would have been very profitable for us. So two in particular I can think about, in our first probably 15 years of marriage, your creative brain came up with, and I howled it to death, how's it gonna happen, blah, blah, blah, and dragged it on.
James: call that the how loop.
Lisa: That's right. I was stuck in the how loop years later. They came out on the market and were big hits So I want to publicly say I'm so sorry and I regret it because we could have had more money by now, I think Yeah, and I even gave you time you were
James: Yeah, and that I actually have good ideas. That's awesome. So, I'm feeling very affirmed. My love language. You're speaking my love
Lisa: That's right, but I've learned that instead of shutting down right away, I need to ask myself, what is James seeing that I am not, and appreciating your ideation and wiring.
And the same goes for you. There are times when I've been more cautious about a decision, not because I'm afraid of the change, but because I see some potential risks that you haven't considered.
James: to slow down and ask what is Lisa seeing that I might be missing, right?
So if you and your spouse are stuck on a decision, you need to ask yourself a few questions. First of all, am I truly open to their perspective? Secondly, could they be seeing something I'm missing? And how can we make space? for both of our voices in this decision. Because again, if you only ever trust your own perspective, you're going to miss the strength and wisdom that your spouse brings to the table.
Lisa: Yeah, so we have these three steps of winning together, listening, not debating.
James: together. debating. Two, being open
Lisa: And the third is finding a compromise that honors both people. I think sometimes we view compromise as this frustrating middle ground where neither person gets what they want. Fine. I give up a little, you give up a little, and we'll both be in a miserable state together.
James: true. We'll both be miserable. I
Lisa: I have done that. We've, we totally have done it, but that's not really compromise. Real compromise. Isn't about splitting the difference. It's about finding a solution that honors both people, honors both perspectives and considers both you and I have learned a lot the hard way in this area. There have been times when one of us has compromised, but the other walks away feeling unheard or disappointed. And that never works because resentment builds up over time and really actually affects the next decision that we have to make.
James: Yeah, and that's really when somebody says, I'm fine, really means I'm not fine, right? Right. But when we take the time to really ask, what is the heart of what each of us want in this decision?
Or we ask, is there a creative way to honor both of our values? Or how do we move forward in a way that strengthens our partnership? Then the decision actually brings us closer instead of causing frustration.
Lisa: Yeah. This reminds me of a time we both agreed we needed to have a tough conversation with our son about his behavior toward his little sister. The tension was in the decision how we would go about it. The what we actually agreed upon, right? We had to really come around common ground through conversation, more conversation, more conversation than either of us actually wanted to do, but to be able to nail down how we were going to approach this conversation.
And we actually came up with some concise bullet points, right? And we agreed right on the, how we walked into that moment with him, with confidence, with clarity, and actually with love for him. And we crushed it in a good way. The key is if one spouse feels like they got completely overlooked in the decision, that's not a healthy compromise. Both people should walk away feeling like their values, concerns, and perspectives were seriously taken.
And that's exactly what happened in the conversation with our son. We both came together and heard each other's side.
James: Because at the end of the day, decision making in marriage isn't about who wins. It's about how we grow as a couple.
And when we listen well, stay open to each other's perspectives and find solutions that honor both of us, we don't just make decisions. We build stronger, more unified marriages. And this is big, so write this down. Be okay with delaying the decision if you're not unified, because sometimes the best decision is waiting until you can move forward together.
Lisa: true.
James: All right, we're gonna go there, Lisa.
Lisa: I'm actually nervous. So
James: Who gets the final say?
Lisa: Lisa. I
James: yeah. It is a big topic. Yes, it
Lisa: Yes, it is. Actually, I just had this discussion with a young bride this week,
James: Okay, so let's look at what scripture says first. Ephesians 5. 23 says, For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ is the head of the church.
Now before, I started getting hate mail, Let me just say that does not mean a husband should just make decisions without his wife's input Biblical leadership is about servant leadership if you think about the way jesus leads the church It's with sacrifice. He actually laid down his life for the church not dominance So anybody who takes that scripture and says well the husband's the dominant one they're missing the point that The husband's supposed to love the bride as Christ loved the church and Jesus laid down his life for the church.
So it's about sacrifice, not dominance. actually, we need to be clear about this. 99 percent of the time, decisions in marriage should be made together, right?
Lisa: And that's what we've experienced in our married life. As many times as we've sat with a husband and wife in a coaching or counseling situation, you have stated that very thing.
You often speak to the servanthood of submission, not the dominance of that. Sometimes we hit. A roadblock where there is no decision or no compromise that can fully come and be aligned. There's just too much data. Too much information, or we just can't come together.
James: So in those rare moments as a husband, it's my responsibility to prayerfully lead us forward.
Not as a dictator. But as a servant leader who values your voice deeply as my wife and partner.
Lisa: And in those times I have to trust you will lead in the way that honors God, honors me, and honors the
James: Yeah. And this works only because I don't make those decisions lightly. It's my job to listen well, to seek wisdom, and to carry the weight of that decision with
Lisa: When you say it's rare that you've had to make those calls, in our married life, I actually only remember one. And it was a massive decision that we could not come to full, we couldn't come fully together on. And I did lean into your call on the decision. And that was from, for us to move from Florida.
After living here seven years to Ohio now into the story, we're back, but nonetheless, it was a difficult decision for us both. There was a lot of factors at play. It was not made lightly. It wasn't, there was not a dominant conversation. There wasn't like, Lisa, I'm making the final decision. It was a lot of prayer, a lot of conversation.
But once we prayed through that and processed through that, I was all in. And actually, when we made the move and things got tough, I was heart and soul in the decision. I made the decision. I would never say, I told you so, and it was going to be rough. We shouldn't have done it. All of those things were, we had aligned to the decision, and we walked the decision out
James: And I think that, you know, just going back to that statement earlier that when there's not unity or you can't come to a decision, pause the decision.
Now we were young at the time and hindsight, there were amazing things that God did in our life and our marriage that we wouldn't be where we are today without that. But. Somebody once said that you don't want to make life changing decisions in the middle of confusion or chaos or
Lisa: Even disappointment or
James: or whatever and so God worked it all together for our good, but you know hindsight we could have sought some counsel has just said hey just Hold on Don't make that decision yet because there were some things that some hardships that happened as a result of the decision , right?
Lisa: Right.
James: At the end of the day submission in marriage isn't about power. It's about trust and Really that goes both ways. I really try to submit to Lisa's wisdom all the time because I trust her
Lisa: And I actually do feel that from you. So all right, let's wrap up this in a simple, practical way to make big decisions together. We're going to give you some practical ways to make big decisions together. So the first is, and it's probably the obvious, but overlooked often, pray first.
Seriously, don't skip this. Before you start debating, invite God into the decision. Proverbs 3, 5 6 tells us, trust in the Lord, Lean not into your own understanding. And the truth is God's God's will. He doesn't wanna hide it from us, right? He wants us to know about it. And it could be a simple prayer like, Lord, we don't have all the answers, but we wanna honor you, give us wisdom, give us clarity, and bring us in together and unity as we make the decision together in Jesus' name.
Amen.
James: it's not about asking God to bless what you already want, right? It's about truly submitting to Him.
Lisa: Exactly. When we start with prayer first, trust and unity. The whole process begins to change.
James: the second thing we'd say, and we've already mentioned it earlier, is to listen well, and it can't be stated enough.
Really listen to each other. Marriage isn't a courtroom. It's a covenant. And some people need to remember it's not about who makes the best argument. It's about seeking to understand.
Lisa: And can we get an amen? That's right.Right. If you don't feel heard, you don't feel valued. And when you don't feel valued, it's hard to make a decision together. So let your spouse speak without interrupting. Acknowledge your feelings.
I can see why this is overwhelming for you. Or I see why you're nervous about that decision.
James: can see why I want a dog.
Lisa: I want a dog. Or take a break if emotions are high and put a pen in it and come back around to
James: Right, because if you don't take the time to hear each other now, you're definitely going to hear about it later,
Lisa: 100 percent When both of you feel heard, decision making becomes a team effort, not a battle.
James: That's right.
Lisa: The third is the way the options together. Once you've prayed and listened, take a step back and look at the big picture.
Proverbs 4, 7 reminds us to seek wisdom, not to just go with what feels right in the moment.
James: Actually, doing the simple pros and cons list can really help here. Like, does this decision actually strengthen our marriage? Or cause tension. How does it affect our family and even our finances?
Does it align with our faith and our values?
Lisa: Yeah, the goal isn't just to pick the easiest option, but to choose what brings peace and unity. So, the fourth is get wise counsel. Don't try to figure everything out alone. Proverbs 15 22 says, plans fail for lack of counsel, but with many advisors they succeed.
James: careful just because someone has an opinion It doesn't mean it's wise counsel, right?
You need to ask yourself. Does this person have a marriage or a life that we actually respect? Do they share our values in our faith? Will they tell us the truth even if we don't want to hear it?
Lisa: the two of you have to make the decision and walk it out together. The people who are giving input usually aren't there with you when you walk out
James: Right. And then the fifth thing is trust God and move forward. Once you've done the first four things and you've gotten the answer, just trust God and move forward. Trust that God is guiding you. You can move forward with confidence. You've prayed. You've sought counsel. You've listened to each other. You've got each other's perspective. So don't second guess. Trust that God is guiding you.
Lisa: Yeah, that's right, when you seek Him first, listen to each other. Weigh the options, get wise counsel. You can move forward in unity, knowing you're on the right path. That's so important for me, James, because I would like to go back and question it. And I declare we're together and we're moving forward in strength.
At the end of the day, making decisions in your marriage isn't about getting your way. It's about growing your unity. It's about learning to say, I trust you. I value you. And we're in this together.
James: That's so good, Lisa. Hey, listen, if this resonated with you, we want to invite you to share this episode with another couple. It will help us get the word out about the podcast. We think this content will help them. Also, we invite you to follow us on social media, on Instagram at are the spousing and actually take a moment and DM us and say, hello, we love hearing from you.
We want to invite you to join our weekly practice email list to receive tools and helpful tips For your marriage every monday. All you need to do is text aos to six six eight six six And know that we're cheering you on and we'll see you next time on the artist spousing podcast until then.
Bye. Bye