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Art of Spousing is for marriages that what to move from being mundane to becoming masterpiece relationships. Hosts James and Lisa Duvall share truths and lessons learned from their 30 years of marriage and over a decade of teaching, coaching, and speaking on marriage.
[00:00:00]
James: Hey friends. Welcome back to the Art Espousing where we talk about all things marriage, leadership, and learning to love each other better. One intentional step at a time. I'm James.
Lisa: And I'm Lisa, and we're so glad you're hanging out with us today. Grab your coffee, find a cozy seat, or if you're folding laundry, like I'll often do when I'm listening to podcasts or you're stuck in traffic, we got you.
you're in the right place.
James: right. Today's episode is gonna be a fun one because we're bringing you some life updates and we're diving into some of the tools that have been reshaping not only how we lead, but how we relate to each other in marriage.
You know, we love a good tool.
Lisa: That is exactly right. James. We have some expectant news for our listeners. It's a birthing of
James: Oh wow.
Lisa: Are you
James: Are you pregnant?
Lisa: I set you up there. No, Heck no. , we're ready to birth a new podcast, baby in the Family.
James: That's right. Yeah. It's [00:01:00] the lively last podcast, which will relaunch into this world, and it's been on my heart for a few months, and now it will soon go live.
Lisa: I am so super proud of you, babe. And let's be honest. When one person in the house launches something new, the whole house feels it. Can I get an amen? Amen.
James: right. So let's talk about that. Launching something new, adjusting rhythms and how marriage isn't immune to the ripple effect of change.
Lisa: If you're listening to this and you're thinking, wow, we could really use a reset in our marriage, then we've got something just for you.
James: Yeah. It's called a marriage reboot, and it's a three month coaching process with Lisa and I designed to help couples move from just surviving to actually thriving in their marriage.
It starts with a private two day intensive where we help you gain clarity on Where you are and where you want to go together, and we build a purpose-driven roadmap to get you there.
Lisa: but the transformation doesn't stop there.
Over the next three months, we will walk with you through intentional coaching sessions to help you implement what you've learned, navigate challenges, and build lasting habits that strengthen your marriage.
James: So [00:02:00] whether your marriage is in crisis, you're feeling stuck, or simply you need a fresh vision. A marriage reboot is designed to bring clarity, connection, and renewal. If you're ready to stop living by default and start living by design, visit artist espousing.com/coaching to learn more.
You can also schedule a 30 minute call with a link in the show notes with Lisa and I to learn more about the marriage reboot.
Lisa: Alright, James, we got something exciting to talk about and I know a lot of people don't know the full backstory, but you're officially relaunching Live, lead last podcast in just a few weeks.
James: Yeah, it's wild to say that out loud. This podcast has been on the back burner for a while, but the message never left my heart and now it feels like the right time to bring it back with new vision and a lot more clarity.
Lisa: And just to give a little bit of history, live Lead Last was our first podcast to launch together back in 2020, I believe.
James: Yeah, that's right. It started as a way to share what I was personally learning in leadership from my own journey [00:03:00] personally, professionally, and spiritually. And we thought it would be fun to co-host it together. And it actually was, right?
Lisa: it was fun. We had some great conversations, brought on some amazing guests, but over time we realized that show didn't quite fit both of us.
So we left room for ourselves to improve.
James: we pivoted. Right. Okay. It was a leadership podcast rooted in my personal experience and while we actually enjoyed doing it together, it wasn't our shared lane. So in 2022, we, we decided that, uh, we would put it on hold and we launched what's now the Art Espousing podcast.
and this has actually really felt like home for both of us. We've been co-hosting now for three years and loving investing in marriages together.
Lisa: so now that you're bringing back Lively last, what's different this time?
James: Yeah, that's a great question. This time it's me hosting solo. You're
Lisa: be so sad.
James: know. Not that I don't like hosting with you, but it's just me hosting it and I'm gonna be sharing content on leadership from my personal journey.
So lessons I've learned, challenges I've walked through, and then I'm gonna share tools and frameworks that have shaped how I live, lead. And think about legacy, and I'm gonna have [00:04:00] conversations with business leaders, entrepreneurs, creators, and thought leaders who are also building meaningful things with purpose and integrity.
So I'm super excited
Lisa: Yeah, I'm excited about the list. Um, yeah. Of people coming on. So it's not just about leadership theory. I appreciate the value of ADD because it is practical, personal, and deeply intentional.
James: Yeah, exactly. And this is for anyone who wants to grow as a person, as a leader, not just in their role, but in their relationships, their mindset, their values.
it's all rooted in the framework we built live. So live with self-awareness and identity lead, lead with influence and integrity. And last, last, with legacy and multiplication.
Lisa: Perfect. Now that we are all intrigued about this, let's talk details. When does the first episode drop?
James: Yeah, so the first episode will drop on Wednesday, June 4th, and then there'll be a new episode that will release every Wednesday. Following
Lisa: That is some serious work that you have in front of
James: I'm working on
Lisa: I know you are. I know. Long form podcasts are a thing. We're actually listening to several long form podcasts. That's [00:05:00] right. in the spirit of doing something new and birthing something new, obviously Art espousing, we try to keep it around 30 minutes or less. Yeah. How long will the Lively last podcast be?
James: Yeah, you know, most episodes will still be around 30 to 40 minutes.
some will be solo teaching, just me teaching on the topic or bringing content, and those might be a little shorter, maybe 20 to 25 minutes. But I haven't really decided to keep it at a certain length. I'm gonna allow the conversations and the content to drive that. the interviews will be more deeper dives, and the goal is to offer really high value, high impact content without overwhelming your week.
Lisa: Perfect. So give us a preview. Who are some of the guests coming on? I know I've looked at the list and I'm really excited.
James: so some are people that you may know, some are, newer to the scene. you're gonna hear from people like Lance Whitt, who's been on this podcast a few times. He's spent his life investing in healthy leadership and soul care, and he's been a mentor to mentors and really a, a mentor and a coach in each of our lives.
a new friend. Jeremy Hick, he's the co-founder of Giant. he's a thinker on [00:06:00] identity, influence and multiplying healthy leaders. our good friend Katie Cole's gonna be coming on the platform podcast. she brings incredible insight around developing female leaders in both church and the marketplace spaces, and someone, we all happen to know and love.
Lisa Deval,
Lisa: be me.
James: That's right. She, you know, you're actually one of the most gifted people I know when it comes to helping others navigate mental health, emotional resilience, and identity. yeah, you just have a way of making people feel seen, understood, and empowered.
Lisa: I appreciate that. Thank you. You know, I did have someone come to me one time and they're like, You come from such a legacy of dysfunction. I knew you could help me with this. So I was like, I'm not offended. I love that. I'm honored to be on, lively last, a little bit nervous with that lineup, but, if my journey and what God taught me helps someone else, I'm down for the lessons learned.
So in sharing them,
James: Yeah. It's not just about what you say, it's how you carry people with you when you say it. And that's leadership, that's influence, right?
Lisa: That's right. Well, I've already subscribed, so,
James: you. I'm glad somebody has,
Lisa: we have one subscriber, and if you're listening right now and you haven't, You can [00:07:00] search for Lively last wherever you get podcasts. Be sure to follow so you don't miss the launch on June 4th.
James: Yeah, and I'll put the link, to the show, in the show notes so you can find it right there. So, fantastic. Thanks Lisa.
Even though it's a solo podcast, I feel like we're still building legacy together and different voices, but still the same mission. Right?
Lisa: exactly. Okay, so earlier you mentioned Five Voices, and if you haven't already, you definitely wanna check out episode 64, where we walk through the basics of each voice and how they impact communication in marriage is a great podcast.
James: that episode was a lot of fun and it really struck a chord. we had so many couples reaching out saying, why didn't we learn about this earlier? And that was how we felt. Like when we first heard about Five Voices, like, I wish we wouldn't have known this so much earlier. It's one of those tools that once you understand it, You can start to hear each other differently.
Lisa: Right. Yeah. It was actually a gentleman who was in his late sixties. Mm-hmm. He said, I wish I would've had this for my marriage long ago. Yeah. I love that idea. Yeah. And it actually leads us into something really [00:08:00] exciting when you wanna share with you today.
Yeah. Something we've been working on behind the scenes for a while now.
James: Yeah. And we haven't really talked about this even to a lot of our friends. It's so new and kind of a, a really cool god opportunity for us, We're officially partnering with Giant Worldwide as the new Sector Captains for Marriage and Family, which is really cool.
Lisa: It's very cool. We're honored and actually, honestly, we're still trying wrap our brains around this huge opportunity.
James: It is huge.
Lisa: Giant, has been such a foundational part of our leadership journey independently and together, and how we get to help bring those tools to marriages and families around the world. It's very exciting.
James: Yeah. It's, it's so super exciting it's kind of surreal, actually we're gonna be creating resources, experiences, and practical frameworks that. Couples can use to grow together and not just in communication, but in emotional health, leadership at home and generational impact.
And we wanna help people live, lead and last in their most important relationships. So really this is huge for the our espousing community. 'cause everything [00:09:00] we get to collaborate with Giant On is stuff that we're gonna be able to offer to our community as well.
And
Lisa: first thing we're creating is something we're incredibly excited about, and it's called Five Voices for Marriage Badge. Yeah,
James: This is a two to three hour guided learning experience for couples to go through together. So you and your spouse can sit down and you're gonna see videos of
Lisa: yours.
Truly. Yes,
James: Us teaching content, it's designed to be engaging, highly practical, and easy to implement. So whether you're newly married or been married for decades. This is gonna be a really great tool for you.
Lisa: Yeah. Great. Launching pad for conversations and discussions for your marriage to grow deeper and stronger.
The badge has two major components. First, there's the framework which helps you discover your voice and understand both the positive and negative powers that come with how you're wired, right?
James: And yeah. And, and then we'll move from there into what we call the application, where we're gonna teach specific tools to help you take the five voices and apply it to making, decisions together more effectively.
How [00:10:00] you can actually support and challenge each other and healthy ways, and really create an empowering marriage where both of you feel, equipped and empowered, then you can truly thrive together.
Lisa: Yeah. We're also including content on how to carry these tools into your ongoing growth as a couple, not just a one-time thing, but something you can integrate into your everyday life, even with your kids.
It's a tool for family culture, not just a couple communication.
James: That's right. Yeah. The tool goes so much deeper than just a communication tool. It is a system of way of, living together, right? And so it's not just about solving conflict. It's about building the shared language that helps you grow on purpose and it helps you lead your home, with more clarity and unity.
Lisa: Exactly. We've already filmed the content and we're working with Giant now to get it polished and packaged and our hope is to release it in the next few months.
James: Yeah. So we'll definitely keep you posted. But in the meantime, if you're curious about your voice or more about Five Voices, you wanna get a Headstart, you can take a free Five Voices assessment and we'll drop that link in the show notes to make it really easy for you.
It's a simple, assessment, but it's [00:11:00] gonna give you a lot of insight on you and also on your spouse. Yeah.
Lisa: The other cool thing about Five Voices, when you're talking about it's not just an assessment for your voice, it has.
lots of tools that we take from leadership and we transfer into marriage space, right? And so it's keep building those tools that we already love, our espousing already has, that we're putting in the pocket to use in our tool belt to use in our marriage life. So, it's not just on paper, It's real life that, that you can use and implement in your marriage, right? So we believe your voice matters, and when you understand, you value it and your spouses, it becomes a foundation for deep connection and lasting impact. And then we get to layer on some tools that help you give visuals so that you can grow deeper.
James: Right? And one side, note on that, that thought I just mentioned is, giant Worldwide is actually holding, voices 25, a really cool conference that's gonna take place, in Oklahoma City at the end of September.
We're actually gonna be there. We're gonna be, Speaking at that event. And so, love to have you come out and be a part of that. I'll put the link to the conference in the show notes, it's gonna be a really cool [00:12:00] experience. It's a, it's a walking conference all throughout Oklahoma City, so there's gonna be different experiences set up all throughout the city it's the first one.
And so, we're excited about that.
Lisa: I just learned today about the Cowboy Museum. I wonder if we're going there.
James: Oh, I don't know. I'll be your
Lisa: He haw. Oh yes. Whatever. Back to the artist espousing. Okay. So we've shared some exciting updates. Wanted to get y'all all updated on that, but we also wanna leave you with something really practical.
It's one of the tools we're talking about that we always implement. But this one is pretty exciting today.
James: Yeah, we wouldn't want you to think that this is just like a life update show. The heart of the art espousing has always been to equip you with tools and, truths that you can actually use in your marriage starting today. Right. Real practical tools.
Lisa: Exactly. So here's a tool we've been using lately with couples and with each other. That's super helpful when you hit a place where you know, something just needs to change. Right? But it just doesn't change, right?
James: Yeah. And we all have those seasons where we feel stuck or just don't know how to move forward.
So this is a little [00:13:00] framework that just helped you. It's called the Change Equation, and it comes from our friends at Giant, and it explains why change actually happens, or how change actually happens or how it doesn't happen. And when we first started using it in our own marriage, it was a like real game changer.
Bad dad joke. Do you like that? I know. No pun intended. Dad joke, game
Lisa: Okay, we'll allow that. But seriously, this tool gives you language for those moments where you feel stok. Because when you give language, it helps you know how to get out of it and get unstuck and helps you figure out how to move together. Yeah. Forward.
James: That's right. So it's basically a, a simple formula
Lisa: so you know, I don't like math, but I do like this
James: Okay. 'cause it's all letters. There's no numbers. I know. Yeah. Algebra. So the, equation is D times V times F is greater than R. D is dissatisfaction times V vision times F first steps have to be greater than the resistance
Lisa: So like me, if you're not a math person, don't worry. What this means is if the [00:14:00] combination of the first three. How dissatisfied you are, how clear your vision is, and the first step you're willing to take doesn't outweigh your natural resistance. Change won't happen,
James: So let's talk about what resistance means though, because that's a big part of this equation. this is where so many couples actually get stuck, is
Lisa: I personally live in a land of resistance.
James: That resistance often shows up as three things, barriers, hurdles, and gaps. And if we don't identify those things, we don't know how to move forward. But if we can actually identify 'em, we can Know how to actually move forward from the resistance.
Lisa: yeah, barriers are things that physically.
Emotionally blocked movement. It could be time, exhaustion, or even old patterns, that are too ingrained in you to change. And sometimes overcoming a barrier means giving each other grace, seeking outside help like a coach, counselor, or a mentor, or even just adjusting expectations for a season so you can move forward without burnout or blaming one another.
James: so there's barriers, then there's hurdles, and those are the things you could [00:15:00] overcome, but they take real effort or change in behavior or change in pattern. It actually takes vulnerability. It might be fear of conflict, a history of being misunderstood or past hurts that haven't, you know, been fully healed.
Those all are hurdles, but it's gonna require some action to move, uh, around those
Lisa: right? Hurdles usually require courage and communication. It might mean choosing to revisit a hard conversation or even just having a hard conversation, right? Practicing empathy or saying something like, this is scary for me, but I want to work through it with you,
James: Right? And then finally, there are gaps. And these are the missing pieces. Uh, you may lack clarity. You may have a gap in, in, uh, a tool that you can use or a gap in emotional language. Even, uh, maybe some shared understanding of what better actually looks like. There's a gap there.
Gaps can actually make change, feel fuzzy or out of reach.
Lisa: What helps close a gap? Education, curiosity, [00:16:00] and intentional learning, right? This might mean reading a book together, going through a course together, or asking what do you need from me that I might not yet understand?
James: So unless you can name those resistance points. Barriers. If you can name the barrier, if you can name the hurdle, you can name the gap. You're probably just gonna feel stuck or frustrated.
But when you are able to name them, you can start taking intentional steps to work through them together.
Lisa: Would you say that when you name them, it could uncover some initial first steps?
James: it really could. If you, if you can actually name where you're stuck, that becomes a opportunity to kind of go, here's how we can move forward against that.
Lisa: Right. Yeah, I love that. And here's the key. Not fixing each other, but partnering with each other to push through resistance with grace, vision, and practical action. James, you've done this with me for me so many times.
James: Yeah. And this is good to know that sometimes you can help your spouse work through change.
By helping identify barriers, hurdles, and gaps, or there's gonna be times that you need to walk through together [00:17:00] because as a couple you're stuck. reminds me of a personal story, from your, life, Lisa, and it's really our story because. we're, we walk through it together, right? But it's a powerful picture of how resistance shows up, in layered ways and what it looks like to walk through it step by step.
So I'll let you start sharing about this. Yeah.
Lisa: Layered ways is definitely a great, definition to, for this story. It's a personal example, But like we've said for some time now and our marriage motto is A better me is a better we, right? So for me, this change wasn't just for me, it was, but it really affected us in a very positive way.
A good part of my resistance was rooted in identity or lack of identity. I didn't know my biological father growing up. And that created some deep barriers emotionally. Specifically, there was this ache of not being fully known. Missing part of my family's story and history and wrestling through questions I couldn't answer.
It left me feeling insecure and like something was missing in who I actually was. feelings of not belonging. There was this fear of [00:18:00] discovering hard truths. I had imagined all these different possibilities of who my dad was, and I, I did a lot of inner healing work and counseling in my adult life.
I also had to confront patterns of codependency and pleasing people. ' cause I didn't know where I belonged. I didn't understand who I was. And so it became easy for me to please people. So they would affirm me and then I would feel accepted and this was a pattern that I'd have to break. And that all grew out of the root of insecurity.
James: Yeah. So that's the kind of dissatisfaction piece, right? Feeling the weight of not knowing your worth, not feeling valuable. Right.
Lisa: Exactly. And then came the hurdles, things I could move through, but they took serious effort. Right. I knew I could figure out who my dad was. I could have a conversation with my mom, but I would risk pulling away from me or stirring up conflict or even more.
I had so much respect for my mom. I didn't wanna put shame on her. I didn't know how to overcome the hurdle in front of me. Right. So I, I, we used ancestry, DNA to start [00:19:00] piecing together my family story, my family tree. when I did find out who my dad was, the next courageous thing was. I had to have a series of awkward conversations, right?
And the first awkward conversation and communication that took a lot of courage was with my mom, right? This conversation went so well, brought a lot of healing to both my mom and myself personally. It was a 10 x move for me in declaring what I needed and what I. Needed was okay. Right. And what I wanted was okay.
Right. That directly impacted our marriage in a very positive way. Right. And then there were gaps when we talked about gaps. This is missing information, understanding that I had to actively pursue. I began finding out some of this history of my biological father's side. It helped me with medical history that was very important, even family members that I could connect with to get to know some of my cousins and my aunts and uncles, even though they had all passed.
Yeah, it really filled in some gaps of where I actually belonged in the. Physical world. not knowing that whole side of my family and their history and all their [00:20:00] ups and downs, crazy things. Some of their patterns in there actually showed up on my life, which is interesting to know that I wasn't connected to them.
But there's some things that were
James: That's amazing,
Lisa: in the hard wiring. Yeah.
James: Yeah. So one of the gaps filled was around confidence gained. you began investing your life. you finished your undergraduate degree, right? And you began stacking on certifications, which really begin filling a gap in that resistance.
Yeah.
Lisa: Earning my psychology degree was a part of filling that gap, not just intellectually, although that was, it gave me a, but it was actually emotionally, it built my confidence. this is where I began multiplying my inner confidence and self-worth. It gave me language for what I had felt for years and didn't know how to express, right, and that it helped me take background that had been off limits for most of my life.
And the cool thing about this along the way, I began to recognize that God had placed men in my life. All along the way, right from a young girl through adult years, mentors men who would champion my giftings. One of my first certifications was in communication, right? And a man in our church who was a friend of [00:21:00] ours, invested.
Me and said, I see this, I see this. I see this gifting in you and I wanna pay for you to go to a communication weekend. And it was powerful. He actually also brought us breakfast at Addie's birth in the hospital. Remember that? French toast, bacon, biscuits, and gravy. Oh my gosh.
James: gosh. Yeah.
Lisa: It almost worth having another baby, but not really.
So, but then there are even spiritual fathers and spiritual brothers who would fill in the emotional gaps of not having a biological dad in the picture. It's really beautiful. Yeah.
James: And what I love about it is your vision and all this wasn't just closure,
You know, we go back to the change equation. It's dissatisfaction. You were very dissatisfied with where you were, but you had the vision not for closure. You wanted something bigger. Mm-hmm.
Emotional independence and truly becoming your own person and all those. Barriers. Identified the hurdles, identified the gaps, identified the next steps that were gonna help you continue to change. that's the power of the change equation. Right, right. When we can put those two things together.
Lisa: Yeah. I wanted to [00:22:00] stop living out of wounds or waiting for someone else to give me worth. I wanted to live from wholeness. Not from approval. And you know, even recently, in this past year, I had to declare independence for myself and making some decisions in and around my mom that I wasn't gonna try to please.
I sought the advice of you, I sought the advice, but, but then I ultimately, I had to make a decision. I declared. And all of that has led up to me being able to go, I have to make the decision that I wanna make, that I know I wanna honor my mom to do. Regardless of me pleasing someone else. Right. And that, that sounds like that's not a big deal.
It really isn't a big deal to you because you could care less what other people think.
James: think. Not really.
Lisa: Not really. Not really to a degree, but it really was it, it was massive for me. And so it was one of my resistances pleasing other people and overcoming that.
James: And anytime you take a first step towards change, there's always gonna be a natural resistance you wanna start going to the gym and working out, there's a natural resistance you have
Lisa: to put, we feel awkward in there. We
James: there. Anytime there's inertia, you're stuck in the place. Getting [00:23:00] movement happening is always gonna be difficult, but when your steps are intentional, you learn, the move forward.
And so your intentional steps were leaning into counseling. Healing growth through education and, and leaning into trusted relationships.
Lisa: right? Hard conversations, courage, all the things, right? Um, it wasn't overnight, but every step forward helped weaken that resistance. And now it's not just my story, it's something I get to use to help others step into healing and identity too.
And I love this equation because it literally does give language. If you work it out, you can see. And then I play it out in my life in so many other ways personally, right? With my kids and with you as we navigate
James: right? Yeah. So if we were sitting down with a, a, a married couple who's feeling stuck, we would talk about what are you dissatisfied with right now?
what do you want? How does it look to be better? That's the vision. And then what are some first steps you can take? And you have to identify what are those barriers and those hurdles and those gaps. But
Lisa: I think some of those barriers, hurdles and gaps actually help you when you can [00:24:00] articulate those. It can help you know what your first step is.
So you may have the dissatisfaction and you may have the vision, but you're not sure what the next step is. Line iteming those, uh, resistance that we just walked through mm-hmm. Will help you know what your first step was. It definitely highlighted what my next step was. Right? Yeah.
James: And here's the beauty of the tool. It can be used for major deep, personal work that you need to do, like what you did, but it's also, a great way to identify, Everyday marriage moments, like let's say you and your spouse keep having the same minor disagreement about household responsibilities, it's not dramatic, it's just lingering, right?
You're dissatisfied because you don't want to keep having that, but the vision. For what better looks like hasn't been clearly shared. So maybe you're waiting for the other person to read your mind, which never happens, at least in our, our home.
Lisa: right?
James: And no one's taken the first step to actually talk about.
So resistance wins not because you're in crisis, but because the equation's off.
Lisa: Exactly. And that's why we love this tool. It works whether you're [00:25:00] working through something big healing or even practical like scheduling. It gives you language and a pathway forward. And we gave you a really complex example.
So if I can figure that out with that complex story, you can figure it out with simple situations within marriage that are feeling dissatisfied and stuck. Right.
James: Right? So here's a few takeaways just to walk through it. Number one, name the dissatisfaction. What's not working? What's creating tension or distance?
Number two, cast a shared vision. What do you really want? What does better look like? How do you want this area to actually feel? Number three, agree on one step. Something simple and clear. Scheduling, maybe a talk, praying together, taking a walk, setting the boundary, whatever makes sense for your season of life.
And number four, name the resistance. Ask, are we facing a barrier? Is it a hurdle? Is this a gap What might we need to overcome it? So what we're gonna do is we're gonna link the visual to the change equation in the show notes. So if you're a visual learner, you can work through it side by side.
Lisa: You may also wanna talk through it on a [00:26:00] date night or even during a next check-in. May even be better if it's a high tension point. Right. Don't save it.
James: don't take tension points into
Lisa: date. Date night. Yeah. If it seems
James: to be fun.
Lisa: yeah.
Use wisdom friends. Use wisdom you'll, you'll know if it's life giving to talk about it at a date night. This isn't about pressure, it's about moving forward with purpose together.
James: Because we know that real change in marriage doesn't come from pressure or panic. It comes from partnership.
that's something every couple can grow into.
Lisa: Wow. We covered a lot in this conversation today, but I think it reflects real life, leadership, marriage identity.
They're all connected. You know, we're growing as individuals and as a couple, and our hope is that something from today's episode encourages you to grow on your purpose also.
James: Yeah. Whether it's discovering your voice, breaking through a barrier, or just taking one small step to reconnect with your spouse.
We believe change is possible and Not just possible, but it's worth it pushing against the resistance. So here's what we'd love for you to do this week. First, go listen to episode 64 of our podcast. If you haven't on Five Voices, it's a great foundation. It'll [00:27:00] help you. Secondly, go into show notes and take the Free Five Voices assessment, and start the conversation about your voice and how it impacts your marriage, and then finally, work through the change equation together.
Lisa: Love it. We'll keep you posted on when the Five Voices for Marriage Badge is ready to launch. We are excited that resource is gonna be available to you. And don't forget, live Lead last officially launches June 4th.
That's right. I'm excited for you, James, With new episodes every Wednesday. You can follow it now wherever you listen to podcasts, so you don't wanna miss that first drop.
James: Yep. So, we're so grateful for you and we love walking this journey with you.
If this episode encouraged you, would you take a second to leave a rating or review. It helps more couples find these conversations. And if you know a couple who needs this episode, text it to them. Start the conversation, invite them into the growth process with you.
Lisa: If you're not receiving our weekly email, the weekly Practice, you'll wanna join by texting a OS to 6, 6, 8, 6, 6.
Keep living with intention, leading [00:28:00] with love, and building a marriage. That last Until next time.
James: Bye-bye.